The rule is 250 kts IAS below FL100. Unless ATC say "No speed restriction". Therefore you MUST after your noise abatement procedure always fly at 250kts IAS. If your a/c is incapable of climbing at 250 kts then inform ATC prior to departure.There are no exceptions to the above.Vololiberista

Sorry but you are completely wrong.... maybe you are right where you live, but in other parts of the world it is 'not' standard procedure for every heavy aircraft to request to be above 250kts. Do you know how many heavy's leave Heathrow every day? do you think every one says ummm our GW is 490+ pounds today we need 284 knots clean today.? Sorry it does not work like that... Rob

Sorry but you are completely wrong.... maybe you are right where you live, but in other parts of the world it is 'not' standard procedure for every heavy aircraft to request to be above 250kts. Do you know how many heavy's leave Heathrow every day? do you think every one says ummm our GW is 490+ pounds today we need 284 knots clean today.? Sorry it does not work like that... Rob

The rule is 250 kts IAS below FL100. Unless ATC say "No speed restriction". Therefore you MUST after your noise abatement procedure always fly at 250kts IAS. If your a/c is incapable of climbing at 250 kts then inform ATC prior to departure.There are no exceptions to the above.VololiberistaIf you read what I said more carefully!!! You will see that I am in fact "completely right!" ALL a/c regardless of their size and weight must maintain a speed of 250kts unless a. ATC release the speed restriction or b. There is a specific need (which is rare because it would interfere with noise abatement procedures. However a request can be made).Vololiberista

Vololiberista,I'm fully aware of the 250kts restriction but can you please explain what real world experiance you have when it comes to departures (ATC or otherwise)Pre 9/11 I spent 10 years Jumpseating with ID90's (sometimes 2 or 3 times a month) out of EGLL LFPG EDDF on the A340/767 longhaul & a very long time ago the Tristar. Not once did we need to request to fly our green dot speed/min clean speed. Maybe it's not the same elsewhere in the world. RegardsRob

Vololiberista,Pre 9/11 I spent 10 years Jumpseating with ID90's (sometimes 2 or 3 times a month) out of EGLL LFPG EDDF on the A340/767 longhaul & a very long time ago the Tristar. Not once did we need to request to fly our green dot speed/min clean speed. Rob

How do you know the min clean speed was above 250 kts, or they didn't keep slats extended for climb. You said you were in the jumpseat, and that was atleast 8yrs ago. Or they could have even put a climb speed in the IFR clearance and you may have never known they asked for it. Below is directly quoted from the FAA FAR/AIM.

FAR 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000

feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).Sorry if I sounded rude.Kevin W.

How do you know the min clean speed was above 250 kts, or they didn't keep slats extended for climb. You said you were in the jumpseat, and that was atleast 8yrs ago. Or they could have even put a climb speed in the IFR clearance and you may have never known they asked for it. Below is directly quoted from the FAA FAR/AIM.

FAR 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000

feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).Sorry if I sounded rude.Kevin W.

Hey Kevin,You dont sound rude :) It's not hard to read the PFD from the jumpseat and have a look at the green dot speed. As I'm sure you can imagine everytime I was on the jumpseat I would keep my mouth shut and just absorb every little thing that was going on. You make a very good point about it maybe being in the flightplan, I dont know much about how dispatch works.RegardsRob

Two comments on this argument (which has been kind of funny to watch).1. 91.117 (d) has the minimum speed exception, so despite the "Administrator must" language, (d) says if the minimum speed is greater than is otherwise described in the section (which includes 2 other speed limits), you can fly the minimum speed. It doesn't even say you need permission. But, I think as others have noted, permission is usually sought and given. 2. One of you is quoting U.S. regs and the other is describing RW European/British experiences. They don't have to coincide for you both to be right.

I think you're doing ATC a disservice here - 250 kias below 10k in descent is fair enough but on departure they are aware of the planes minimum manoeuvering speed and will act accordingly. If you're in a heavy aircraft and the mms is above 250 kias they will alow it but if in a regional jet/prop they wont.Safety is EVERYONES responsibility and nobody wants to take risks... (in normal events - we've all heard about the 'getthereitis')Besides that the 'rule' does vary in different airspaces."OI that Gypsy Moth isn't doing 250 knots!!!"John Ellison

You have to remember that it is considered safe to climb with the slats extended. So atleast in the US if you break the speed restriction ATC can report you to the FAA, and if your answer for going over the limit is we couldn't go that slow in clean config because the Gross Weight. They'll probably ask you why you didn't ask for permission or why you didn't keep the slats or flaps extended. Kevin W.

Extract from CAP 393 th UK CAA Air Navigation Order:-Speed limitations21.