PART 2: FSD! Im over add-ons with anti-piracy built in.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

First, as Steve and Tim point out in the previous thread, their customer was taken care of BEFORE he posted his message here - what does that tell you??? An agenda perhaps? Steve and Tim asked a legitimate question; why so many installs in such a short period - not unreasonable and not the FSD behemouth/bad guy that some wish to paint it. Their question was met with abuse from the customer; I saw the response. Believe me, it was very abusive (and from a user that we don't wish to see in our community and which subsequently got him banned here).This is NOT about FSD or their customer however. The real issue IS all about machine binding as a way of securing a product. I think I can confidently say that the majority of users within this forum system are all for anti-piracy. After all, the vast majority of us are honest, law abiding types, that don't like the idea of having to pay for someone else's thievery. Piracy, like shop lifting, costs all of us. To preach anti-piracy here is akin to singing to the choir.The issue is methods of protecting ones work. Let's focus on that, shall we? Whose methods works best? What level of "pain" are you willing to abide to protect the interests of not only the commercial developer, but your investment? Think about it. If you are a paying customer, piracy hurts you too. If a company folds in frustration, and it has happened more than I can count, then where does that leave you?

[Arklight1 140]

>thats the risk of normal life....>>think about your car. what would happen if you buy a car and>one year later the company is out of busines. no guaratee, no>spareparts, no help anymore. thats business.What??No Parts? Whether or not a car company goes out of business is a moot issue. Auto parts for most cars are avialable from a variety of parts manufacturers.No Help? There are a TON of qualified auto mechanics out there for just about every vehicle imaginable.No Garuntee? Every car has a warranty, after that then you have no garuntees anyways. And what about used automobiles? Most of them have an extremely short warranty....if one at all.

[Guest SoarPics]

<>Hi Joel,I won't make a judgement about who was right and who was wrong in this case. The reason is simple... I have no way of verifying the evidence presented by both parties. I was not a first person witness to their e-mail exchanges, so I simply will not involve myself in their business dealings with each other.What most of us are taking a stand on here is the machine binding methodology of theft protection. Trying to stop piracy by intruding into the computers and private lives of your paying customers simply cannot succeed. I have nothing to hide on my computer and in my home, but that doesn't mean I should allow an invasion of my privacy to prove that fact. I won't tolerate such treatment, and I believe msot civilized persons share that believe.I won't be installing any of my FSD products when the new sim arrives. Though I respect their right to do all they can to protect their property, I simply wish not to be inconvienced and intruded upon by such policies and methods. That's my right as a consumer. There are other choices available... both freeware and payware.Regards,

[Guest]

I would like to say something about the idea that the "customer is always right".Anyone who has worked in a customer service industry would probably agree that there will always be people who are just not worth having as customers.All of us, I am sure, have had the experience of standing behind some jerk at Mcdonalds who spends 10 minutes cussing at the counter person because they forgot to put catsup on his kid's happy meal burger. Undoubtedly, the manager will come out and apologize profusely to this idiot and give him some free food, even though what he really deserves is to be dragged out of the store and told never to return.When I was young I worked a lot of retail, and I cannot even begin to express how much I completely lost all faith in humanity through the experience. Companies need to draw the line with unreasonable people somewhere. At some point, they need to simply say "We don't really want your business. Thank you and goodbye." Too often in this society, people have this strange notion that they deserve whatever they want, just because they are a customer, and they can feel free to be as abusive and unreasonable as they like.I am not suggesting that this rant has anything to do with this particular example, but I do think that the idea of the "customer is always right" gives some people the idea that they can go through life ignoring simple common courtesy and civility (not to mention trying to mooch as many freebies as possible -- i.e. people who make a habit of complaining in restaraunts to get free food).Often, the customer is wrong, and he needs to be shown the door if he can't deal with it.

[Gridley 257]

Well said. Appropriate amoung these pages where more often than not, the abusive customers haven't even paid for the product they complain about (I mean *freeware*, but whatever). ;)

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

I heartedly concur with that sentiment. The guy that screams the loudest "I am your customer, I am always right" is usually the customer you don't want. Over the last twenty years or so, I have negotiated contracts up to $24 million in value. There are a number of contract negoatiations in which I have told the "customer" to get stuffed (politely), and walked away. Taking their business would have cost my company more than the contract was worth. Trust me, some customers you don't want.

[Guest A321]

>thats the risk of normal life....>think about your car. what would happen if you buy a car and one >year later the company is out of busines. no guaratee, no >spareparts, no help anymore. thats business.Yes I agree, but you dont lose the keys to start the car, do you?, IF FSD go out of business, and your disk crashes, you cant even re-install your stuff, never mind support (Spare Parts).So Your post has no stance, and IMHO your finding any excuse to support FSD, in a very unrealistic and bias apporach. This discussion is objective. What I have a problem with is their attituide that seems to be all paying customers are pirates untill they prove themself Innoncent. Do car companies refuse to help you because you have changed your tyers a million times?. I totally Understand FSD in that they dont want to lose 30% of their income, but the IP thing is a joke, and anybody can see IP'S will issue a dynamic IP.Jason

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Exactly...

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

"What I have a problem with is their attituide taht all paying customers are pirates untill they prove themself Innoncent."Well that is where I have a problem. I have read every message in both threads now, and I don't see that implication. I have seen folks interpret the action/piracy prevention of FSD as in fact the "attitude" that you convey, but I have seen no indication in either Steve's or Tim's posting that this presumption is as you paint it. They queried a single user, and you seem to have jumped to this massive conclusion. I don't get it.

[Guest A321]

Tom,Whilst I every respect for your opinnion, I doubt you would be treated as normal customer. I wonder what you would get away with as oppsed to a normal customer. Lest say I re-Installed My software 10 times in 2 hours, and you did the same. Lets say we both had very legit reasons. You as you, using your name, would not be subject to the 3rd Degree and be asked for an explinantion as to whats going on. However I would be, why is that?. If you doubt it, I challenge you to try it out when the dust settles, and post your results. It is easy for you to take a bias side, but you have not been on the end of their wrath, I have, and if you want I will mail you the correspondence between us, and you will see clearly why im fustrated.FSD has no business in Checking up on me, and how many times I have installed my software. IF they cant work out what is going on then their system is not working.Jason..

[1mikel151 71]

Now this is something I can agree on! I am a manager in the service industry and I cannot count how many times I have had a patron that needed to be taken outside and have the crap beat out of him! LOL Unfortunately that was never an option. (I have the asst managers do it ;-) )I have several of the FSD products and love them, and I have gotten some attitude from the guys, BUT I chalk this up to them having to deal with the "always right customers" and let's face it, having the deal with less than polite people on a regular basis will make you a bit jaded and look at things a bit different, and also treat people a bit different. Having said that I DO NOT like the new system set up by FSD, it is a huge pain for me, even though I understand why it was implemented, it is still not something I look forward to and actually hinders my thoughts on purchasing future aircraft.While I share Greg's thoughts on intrusion and not having the info of my PC open for public viewing, I will still use FSD products, but like I said I will think twice before getting any future offerings.Think about it, if MS can get hacked into, then who is really safe?Regards, Michaelhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com

[TonyB 1]

Correct. It is amazing what some customers expect. I used to be a manager with a national retail chain. I don't know how many times customers were abusive for the sake of being abusive. Our store and company were not perfect, but I think we got alot right most of the time. There are a lot of good people out there, but the bad ones are ruining it for the rest of us. As many lines as I have been given by customers, it was difficult to know when to believe them and when not to. I could go on, but my basic point is, the customer is not alway right.Tony

[1mikel151 71]

"Tom,Whilst I every respect for your opinnion, I doubt you would betreated as normal customer. I wonder what you would get awaywith as oppsed to a normal customer. Lest say I re-InstalledMy software 10 times in 2 hours, and you did the same. Letssay we both had very legit reasons. You as you, using yourname, would not be subject to the 3rd Degree and be asked foran explinantion as to whats going on. However I would be, whyis that?. If you doubt it, I challenge you to try it out whenthe dust settles, and post your results. It is easy for you totake a bias side, but you have not been on the end of theirwrath, I have, and if you want I will mail you thecorrespondence between us, and you will see clearly why imfustrated.FSD has no business in Checking up on me, and how many times Ihave installed my software. IF they cant work out what isgoing on then their system is not working.Jason.."Jason, in case you haven't noticed there are no FSD files posted here at AVSIM. I seem to remember a bit of a disagreement awhile back, so I don't believe ther are any special privaledges being handed out here, but I could be wrong.Regards, Michaelhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com

[Guest Ken_Salter]

It is unfortunate that because of piracy (or the perceived threat of piracy), we now have a situation where companies do not trust their customers, and the customers do not trust the companies.I wonder where this will end up...

[Guest SoarPics]

<>Not in a good place, I believe. I now must be careful of what I buy on-line because I feel it an intrusion of my privacy to deal with the machine binding technology. The sellers lose because some of their customers are unhappy with all this Orwellian technology (even if the customer's perceptions are incorrect about how intrusive it is... the perception alone is enough to turn people off). So, everybody loses... to a technology that hasn't proven that it does anything to stop the pirates.Sad, really sad. For everybody.