I think there's some misconceptions going on in the FS world about autolands. First off, they're almost never done by real pilots. Pilots like flying their planes (especially at landing) and they're only going to do an autoland when the weather conditions actually require it or when it's needed to keep up with the plane's certification schedule.In the real world, the runway and ILS transmitters have to be certified for autolands. Most airports do not have this and it's actually illegal to perform an actual no-visibility autoland on a non-certified runway because you're running the very real risk of the plane landing somewhere that's off from where it should be.I don't think FS's ILS beams are completely accurate in where they terminate as far as the glideslope goes - that could be some of what you're seeing, but as the others in the thread stated, you don't actually try to land right on the numbers anyway.

I understand what you are saying but reading the tutorial flight page 29 the instructions say to deactivate the autopilot after passing 60 kts on the runway! So, a first time user of this plane (like me) just follow the instructions. I assume that when we get the advanced tutorial things will become much clearer.David

I think there's some misconceptions going on in the FS world about autolands. First off, they're almost never done by real pilots. ...

That's interesting to know. Is this consistent across all airlines? I ask because I remember hearing somewhere a while ago that some airlines (I think it might have been BA but I'm not sure) expect their pilots to use autoland regularly. It was quite a high proportion: something like one in every three landings, weather conditions permitting.Tim

That's interesting to know. Is this consistent across all airlines? I ask because I remember hearing somewhere a while ago that some airlines (I think it might have been BA but I'm not sure) expect their pilots to use autoland regularly. It was quite a high proportion: something like one in every three landings, weather conditions permitting.Tim

Hey Tim,Not sure where you heard that but it's not true. You would be surprised how many airports & runways are not CATII/ CATIII equiped. Also you need to inform ATC so they can keep aircraft on the ground at a safe distance in order to not disrupt the signal.As stated above here are the general reasons for performing a full autoland.1. Low visibilty2. Capt needs to stay certified (this can be done in the sim)3. Aircraft needs to stay certified/ or needs testing after maintenanceRegardsRob

Well, I never autoland, and I've never even tried it in the MD-11. However, I do use the ILS to aid my approach since I think this is common practice. Following the G/S down to the threshold on manual flight does not bring you onto the numbers. I doubt it's supposed to, at least for certain airports in real life. The sim of course will be the same all over. Your landing zone is well beyond the numbers, 1000' beyond the threshold in most cases. The numbers are usually marked just past the threshold a few feet. While some aircraft in visual conditions might land on the numbers, this is probably not the best thing since so many airports have obstacles on approach to the runway. Most IAPs will have a TCH (threshold crossing height), such as TCH 55, meaning crossing the threshold at 55' or higher. I can't say if this lines up with the G/S on ILS approach, but again the sim will always be the same since the glidepath and other variables are static.Having said that, I never really land on the numbers in the sim at all in any aircraft and I've only ended up at the end of the runway when I was too heavy (improper fuel planning), not quick enough in engaging reverse thrust, forgetting to set autobrakes, or a similar issue. Sometimes this is normal though if your runway is short, but as long as you aren't struggling to stop, then it isn't a big deal. It's sometimes hard to decide what autobrake setting to use for shorter runways, but if I'm looking at an <9000' or less and I'm full of cargo, then I might decide to set max. Of course, always make sure your landing fuel is around 20,000 to 25,000 LBS, give or take.As to "landing speed", your Vapp or approach speed is what the FMS gives you and that is often pretty high in the MD-11. I'm usually approaching at 158 to 160. This is normal. Your Vref will be slightly less, but that is your speed in which you cross the threshold so to speak. Not a problem if you tocuhdown at Vref though. If ATS does it correctly, then it will disengage at 50' AGL and slowly bleed off speed so you touchdown slightly slower than your Vapp (approx Vref). How short is the runway you are trying to land on?

Thanks Chris for your comments and to other people for their comments as well..I have been practising landings at EGCC which has long enough runways. I was using autoland mainly to see where touchdown occurred compared to my own manual landings. From what you say it looks as if I am not that far out of the proper touch down zone, it seems to be more a matter of watching my touch down speed. I am actually using the key board and that does not make things easier. I will really have to ask for a yoke for Christmas!Best wishes, John

Thanks Chris for your comments and to other people for their comments as well..I have been practising landings at EGCC which has long enough runways. I was using autoland mainly to see where touchdown occurred compared to my own manual landings. From what you say it looks as if I am not that far out of the proper touch down zone, it seems to be more a matter of watching my touch down speed. I am actually using the key board and that does not make things easier. I will really have to ask for a yoke for Christmas!Best wishes, John

Yes, of course the others are correct about the autolands. They're really only done for the reasons Rob outlined, and even then, they seem to be more popular outside the U.S., perhaps for the regulations we have and mostly good weather compared to Europe.Anyhow, I just did a quick run from KSDF to KPHL (UPS 2194) and was given 27L (actually I was given 27R but had planned for 27L in the FMS and had the 27L IAP RNAV chart in front of me for a transition, so I requested 27L). Then upon lining up for final and receiving the proper ILS freq, I followed the G/S down to somewhere below 200', although the conditions were visual and I was only using the ILS to make sure I was staying on the glidepath to a certain point. Most of the time was spent looking out the window as I should've been and approaching without the instruments. I just know at last glance, the ILS was darn near centered and I was pretty low. One thing I looked for was my height over the threshold, and as luck would have it, I got the 50' call just as I flew over the threshold, so that was perfect. The TCH was 50 on my IAP, so I was happy about that. Here's how it played out using Google Earth (I had to exit the sim to go eat, so no time for screen shots). My cargo load was 191.674 in the load manager and I landed with about 17,000 LBS. I planned too little based on wind from Active Sky, but I was okay. Vapp was 163.Close up of 27L at PHL. 50 in red noted over the threshold, which I accomplished perfectly. Area in yellow was my touchdown point. Touchdown point in yellow. I was able to exit the runway under 20 knots at the point in red.

Btw, I almost always use Med autobrakes setting. I do not have high decel checked in the options menu.I just completed another flight, this time KMCI to KSDF (UPS 661). I was given runway 35L. TCH on the IAP I used is 59'. I approached manually again using ILS for reference, which helps since it's night. :( I tried during playback to gauge my TCH and it seemed to be around 60' - perhaps a couple feet extra. I took some screen shots.Picture 1: Entering threshold at 65' AGL. Might need to ignore certain other aspects of the panel as it was during playback and things screw up (such as CONFIG because I'd retracted flaps and autobrakes after runway exit?). One thing I noticed is the radar altimeter is at 50 feet and the ATS is off, which is when it would kick off, however, my chart for KSDF has the airfield at 500 feet and FS9 has it at 501. It's odd though, since I'm at 565 feet, but the radar altimeter says 50' AGL. I don't recall the deviation of the radar altimeter on the ground though or if that makes a difference in the sim, but it can't be -15? Whatever, good enough for me in this example:Picture 2: Same as above, only outside view of crossing threshold. Picture 3: Touchdown point from above in sim. This is where my mains touched down, so you can see it is pretty far from the threshold and numbers, but I can assure you I didn't float and my flare was fairly brief. If anything I came down fast but still managed to touchdown firm although not rough. It was a bit harsher than most though. The V/S looked to be around 200, but who knows. No way it was at or beyond 300. Maybe it was a better landing than most. I tend to try and "grease" my landings and that isn't a good idea in a heavy like the MD-11 with such fast approach speeds.Picture 4: Here's where I exited the runway. You can see I used a bit of the 10,000, but still had plenty of room. No matter what, I never have any issue getting off the runway without using her all up. My Vapp was 164 and I ended up hitting pavement at 162.

ILS approaches will take you to a touchdown point 1,000 to 1,500 from the approach end. The Main Gear is 100' behind the cockpit and significantly lower than both the cockpit and ILS antenea located on the nose gear strut. My company normally has us arrive at the destination with around 16,000 lbs of fuel as long as our alternate is reasonably close therefore our landing weight is in the mid 400,000 lbs range. The range of landing distance required for a Max weight landing is (Flaps 35): 6,760' (Reported Braking action: Good), 9,710 (Reported Braking action: Medium), 12,660 (Reported Braking action: Poor) <- Not a good idea.Autolands: The MD-11 is certified to do autolands even on CAT I runways as long as the TCH is greater than 47'. CAT I,II, and III are the categories associated with weather conditions to fly the approaches.I am new to the forum and hope my input and experience may be of some help.

Hey Tim,Not sure where you heard that but it's not true. You would be surprised how many airports & runways are not CATII/ CATIII equiped. Also you need to inform ATC so they can keep aircraft on the ground at a safe distance in order to not disrupt the signal.As stated above here are the general reasons for performing a full autoland.1. Low visibilty2. Capt needs to stay certified (this can be done in the sim)3. Aircraft needs to stay certified/ or needs testing after maintenanceRegardsRob

That makes perfect sense. And it explains why there is such variation in the "quality" of real-world landings!Tim