Hey guys! I'm getting PMDG 747-400X very soon. I figured that right after I buy it, I want to go from CYVR to KSEA. What route do I take? Is it this one? : YVR4 JAWBN JAWBN1. It looks a bit to short; I went and used Flight Aware (Focused on American Airports). I picked the "ILS RWY 16L (CATII)" and found out that the chart has more alot more way points than the 112nm trip itself. (WPT: COROK, KENMO, HELZR, KARFO, DGLAS.) I've looked and seen lots of tutorials about these things but the only thing not-making sense is the "YVR4, JAWBN, JAWBN1." I'm not sure if those are even way points they're so short. Please Help me! P.S. I'm aware that 747-400 don't go from CYVR to KSEA.

Nothing wrong with short flights in a 747. Make sure you fuel her up correctly. I ended up doing some research on this. My information I think is older than yours. My first look was in a folder that had YVR3 data, while you are citing YVR4. I also found some five year old tax forms stuffed into the folder that I remember tearing out my hair that long ago when I was trying to find them. I can't recall why I put my tax papers in with my sim navigational files. Probably something to do with swearing off on FMC's. It was a bad idea all around, I see that now. YVR3 and 4 seem to agree basically about turning south: you want to hit the intersection IMPOR after take-off. The procedure is YVR4.IMPOR. It's 169 degrees from the YVR VOR, but it would be kind of silly for you to put that VOR into your flight plan. From IMPOR, you can link up to one of Seattle's STARS.This took me a while to figure out: JAWBN has nothing to do with Vancouver, it's a Seattle approach. There are two JAWBN9 approaches, one based on the YVR VOR and one based on the TOU VOR (Tatoosh). I am not familiar with the intersections you listed.So, going from CYVR along IMPOR, sort of using YVR4.IMPOR and JAWBN9.YVR (they overlap because the two procedures are so close, so I am cutting out where you would fly to IMPOR, backtrack to the YVR VOR and the fly to JAWBN): CYVRIMPORJAWBNDIGGNALKIAKSEAThat's the shortest "legal" route I could find. You could probably do almost the same flying GPS direct. A route that would allow you to stretch your wings a little more would be to hook up with the Tatoosh VOR, southwest of Victoria. CYVR(IMPOR) Use this if you want the YVR4.IMPOR departure, otherwise head direct to -TOU (112.2) Turn 102 to -JAWBNDIGGN ALKIAKSEANow the usual disclaimers: A) I am not a commercial airline pilot B) You can't use this for real world navigation C) My information is certainly out of date. But then FSX uses ancient nav data, so I don't mind using old charts. I never bother to update the AIRAC or anything like that. If you have more up to date info, you will probably have discrepancies. Considering the nature of this flight, I don't think that total realism is a huge priority.I would suggest trying out this flight in a GA aircraft to see how it looks. It will go by very quickly in a 747. Jeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

Hi, MahrVel.You might want to have a look at this thread because some of your fellow AVSIM members are gearing up to learn the ins and outs of the FMC... And your question about routing fits right in with this (even if you already know how to program and use a FMC):http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=269631Basically, the route shorthand is the following format:SID.TRANSITION.STAR.There can be waypoints (airways) in between like on a transoceanic flight, but the general format is like the above example. The STAR usually is named after the IAF (Initial Approach Fix), or at least, contains a way point the STAR is named after e.g. KEPEC2 into Las Vegas, has way point called Kepec.Formulating a route is easy once you know the shorthand and also download real world SID and STAR charts. You quickly learn how to connect all the dots (way points), literally and figuratively, to form your intended flight pla :(

The JAWBN1 arrival would work. The other waypoints you are seeing are part of the ILS. Normally, ATC will vector you to intercept the ILS anyway - you may not even follow those waypoints. In the RW they would vector you to a "base" leg for the ILS (something like a 090 heading, maybe 15-20 miles north of the airport).

Dan Downs maintains a set of PMDG SIDs/STARs and approaches for airports in the US, KSEA among others. These are quite handy, because in addition to the published procedures for each airport, he also includes customized STARs that provide complete routes to the final approach fixes for the ILSs. Easier than providing your own vectors when flying without ATC.The current cycle 0913 files are in the Avsim file library, search for "cycle_0913_sidstars.zip". There is a readme file in the archive that explains how to use them.

I really know how to program the FMC very well now (from watching vids), but I don't know the right site to get the way points... And yes I've downloaded the "cycle_0913_sidstars.zip" you guys recommended me, but is that were the way points are? Those numbers and letters are very confusing. Well anyway I tried doing a longer range "flight", and I got these Way points :~KATL - KMIASNUFY BDODD WEFIV WEFOR THRSR LUCKK HITTR TUCKE JUULI BAARY CYPRESS DEEDS WALIP RUBOE LECIT JUNUR SHANN OLDDE BIRDD PECOT These way points are headed to Runway 30 at KMIA; I'm not sure if it makes sense because I can't really take step by step at looking on different IFR Plates. If you have the right way point please help me, and tell me what I should've done.

A good place to download free IFR charts (SID, STAR, Instrument Approach Plates) is...http://www.skyvector.comJust use the "Airport Search" function at the top left. Plug in the ICAO code (for U.S. airports) and it takes you to a master page for each airport with ALL the charts you could ever want.This is why learning how to read real SID and STAR charts makes your job easier in the sim because it takes the guess work of out of knowing what way points are crucial to your departure and arrival. Also, looking at the Approach Plate for a specific runway also lets you distinguish things like the IAF and the other way points that lead right to the arrival RWY. Approach Plates also give you vital information like MSA (Minimum Safe Altitude) around the airport, MDH (Minimum Decision Height), NAV1 localizer frequency and RWY Course HDG, just to name a few.Here is a video I did to help people learn how to read SID and STAR Charts:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrel4WB4KV0There are much better and more in-depth tutorials on YT than mine. I just did this as quick primer... But hopefully, you get the basic idea of WHY you need to download real world SID and STAR charts and learn to read them because they ARE the air maps of the skies, more or less.Second, here is a good place to find routes:http://www.simroutes.comJust input the departure and destination ICAO codes and if a route between the two exists, it will come up.The good thing about SimRoutes is it lists ALL the way points and their SID, or STAR they might fall under. On top of that, you can also download the flight plan in a number of formats for both FS9, and FSX. You can then just plug this into your FMC. Be aware, you will still have to specify your departure and arrival runways. In the real world, a majority of the time arriving airliners are vectored into position by ATC to intercept the correct RWY course heading and Localizer / G/S combination for a ILS approach. If flying without ATC coverage and just using the FMC... You have to plot your own intercept course... And / or switch OFF LNAV (Laternal Navigation) and vector yourself into position. The latter is much easier if you plan ahead because it keeps the plane (autopilot) from having to make impossible turns and altitude deviations.One last thing you may or may not know...MSFS simplies the entire ILS procedure. It uses the last Localizer-Only (LOC) altitude as a G/S Intercept Altitude. In the real world, ATC vectors planes to the appropriate altitudes where they can capture the G/S and Localizer seamlessly in a smooth, continuous descent to the runway as they reduce speed, deploy flaps and then disengage the autopilot for a smooth landing.

Again, things depend on how real you want your flight plan to be. On a very basic level, you can follow what FSX calls the "high level airways" to navigate between airports. Just pick the most efficient route.SIDS and STARS - standard departures and approaches are a different kettle of fish. You can find GPS-based approaches and departures built into the FSX GPS. Based on those, you can see what FSX considers to be an appropriate route. A step towards more realistic flight planning is to use something like FlightSim Commander. My copy is not up to date, and I even use SimPlates, which is at the forefront of IFR navigation technology as long as you live in 2004.You can also find a lot of info free on the Internet. http://www.airnav.com/airports/The above is a tremendous resource for USA flights. Jeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

After lots of minutes trying to understand SIDS and STARS I Finally understand it! It all makes sense, It's just like a puzzle! Yes I'm very grateful and thankful to all of you. To make sure I really understanded the lesson is, I did "KMSP - KORD". Guess what? I made it to airport! It makes alot of sense. I'm really happy, and I might get the "870,000lbs of PMDG" tommorow! Thank you guys I really appreciate it. :(

Glad you see the value of learning how to read SID and STAR charts :( The reality is SIDs and STARs are supposed to be easy to read & understand considering pilots have countless other jobs to attend to while flying the plane. It would make no sense if they where too complicated to understand, right?Short routes... Like the example I used in my video (KLAX to KLAS)... Are just the SID and STAR connected to one another. Literally. Longer routes are the SID, TRANSITION WAY POINT + SOME OTHER WAY POINTS and then THE STAR. Like I said, it's pretty easy once you understand the general format AND have a starting reference like SimRoutes that gives you a lot of pre-configured flight plans based on the real world routes.

Anyone looking for printable SIDS and STARS and Enroute Charts for simming in Canada this is the site you need. http://www.ivao.ca/charts/RegardsMartin

Now go fly in Europe lol. I try to do that on VATSIM, but you have to search through a bzillion web pages to get the charts you want. And then use route finder to attempt to get the routes. Half the time they don't exist. When you do find a route the SID isn't valid because they are using different runways arghh.I pretty much stick to US vatsimming

Yes! I got the PMDG 747-400 today!