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FS2004, CD4 in Drive.... Copy Right Issues

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Hi, all, Just read in a review that you need the fourth CD in the drive to fire up FS2004.1. Can I remove the CD after starting FS and put in another CD (for Example SIM Charts?)2. THe 4th cd is going to be damaged very soon, Can I Legally make a copy of it and use the burned copy on my machine?3. if burning the CD #4 is technically possible, then what is the security strategy here, anybody can burn copies of CDs in todays computers, I dont get it.Other Question:I want to be Beta Tester for FS2006 to have a copy of the sim before it hits the shelves. how do I apply? (Just Kidding, This wait is driving me crazy!!!!!)Thanks....

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>Hi, all, Just read in a review that you need the fourth CD in>the drive to fire up FS2004.>>1. Can I remove the CD after starting FS and put in another>CD (for Example SIM Charts?)>>2. THe 4th cd is going to be damaged very soon, Can I Legally>make a copy of it and use the burned copy on my machine?>>3. if burning the CD #4 is technically possible, then what is>the security strategy here, anybody can burn copies of CDs in>todays computers, I dont get it.>>Other Question:>>I want to be Beta Tester for FS2006 to have a copy of the sim>before it hits the shelves. how do I apply? >(Just Kidding, This wait is driving me crazy!!!!!)>>>Thanks....>I also want to know if burning copies is possible, I never use the original FS2002 CD's, i've made copies of all 3 and thats what I use, I learnt that after FS2000 when CD2 got scratched so badly it became unusuable, and if you want to beta test then send an e-mail to betareq@microsoft.com in the following format; SUBJECT:Include only the Product Name (Do NOT include Microsoft or any other words) in the subject. Requests without the product name in the subject will not be considered.Sample: Subject: WindowsMESSAGE:Include the following information in the body of your e-mail message: First NameMiddle NameLast NameCompanyStreet Address (no PO boxes)CityStateZipPhoneFaxE-mail AddressBrief description of your system configurationBrief description of why you want to test this product.

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Hi there,>THe 4th cd is going to be damaged very soon, Can I Legally make a copy of it and use the burned copy on my machine?if burning the CD #4 is technically possible, then what is the security strategy herehttp://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

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A) The protected CD's of any game can be copied using specialist CD copying tools. Most of these tools can be found for free on the internet.:( A better solution is a N0 CD patch. No CD patches have been made for almost every protected game ever made. You just run the patch and your program never asks for the CD again. There was a no-cd patch for fs2000 and its fairly certain that there will be one for FS2004.C) If you fail taking one of these precations there is yet another chance. Already there are iso's of the FS2004 on the internet. Just get the ISO that has your damaged CD on it and burn it on a CD-RThe protection on the CD is there to stop clueless computer users copying the CD for a friend (aka the casual pirate). As a piracy protection this method is hopelessly outdated. Its just another burden for us legal users. The widespread availability of FS2004 before the official release shows us how ineffective the current anti-piracy methods are.In my opinion the last FS version that had good piracy protection was FS2000. It was not the CD in drive protection that came with it it was the printed manual. Nowadays those PDF's on the CD just make it easier for the pirates. And what do whe legal users get? A DVD case with a small pamflet containing instructions and 4 shiny CD's not much different from the 4 CD-R's and the Readme.doc that the pirates get.For the record I am against piracy of any kind I buy my software fair an square but I feel free to circumvent all anti piracy measures a game might have. I am also against the anti-piracy technique know as machine binding used in several new FS add-ons because I think this practice is far to limiting for the legal users. I will not buy any of these new add-ons.

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Oh my god, I hate these legal discussions ... but I have to add my thoughts anyway ;)AFAIK the American Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and also the new German copyright law, make it illegal to disable any copyright protection method. Am I wrong? I'd sure like to be wrong this time!Just my 2c (EUR),VOlker :]

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Thanks guys, it looks that this anti piracy method is not useful, why a company like MS does not come up with a better Anti piracy system???I had to replace my FS2002 disks already a year ago.... disk 3 got damaged while installing, At a 20 something dollar cost, (fortunately the guy of MS told me that I did not have to buy the "commercial set" so they sent me a replacement....I think that 4th cd is going to be very scratched after the 1st month using FS2004!!!!

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Hi Volker,a copyright protection exists in law. A copy protection, which prevents the making of a backup copy, can legally be cracked:http://transpatent.com/gesetze/urhg11.html#69eNote in particular sections 69d)2&3, 69e)3, 69g)2.EDIT: The link is still the current version of the law, but the only changes in the new version with regards to section 69, is the addition of 69C)4, which gives the copyright owner control over distribution via download sites.The law in the US is fundamentally different - comsumers generally have less rights than elsewhere.Cheers,Gosta.http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

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"2. THe 4th cd is going to be damaged very soon, Can I Legally make a copy of it and use the burned copy on my machine?"Why do you say the 4th cd is going to be damaged very soon? Do you plan on damaging it? I've been using computers since the TRS-80 days, and I've never had a CD get damaged from normal use. If you take care of your CD's they will last forever.

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Gosta: I meant copy protection, sorry! I'm really not up to date, or too involved in this topic, just read something in a computer magazine or Heise.de's news section from time to time.Regarding the damaging of CDs through constant use: I don't really see that problem either. It's annoying, but as CDs are read without direct contact to the media surface, they should not suffer at all. Nonetheless I would install a NoCD patch if I would stumble across one.VOlker :]

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Hi Volker,the problem with CDs breaking through coninous use is not scratching of the surface (like old vinyl records), but the perils of modern technology - new CD drives spin way too fast, which can cause cracks to develop on the CD, and if you're unlucky, it may break into pieces.So, people with really old drives will not encounter that problem :). Cheers,Gosta.http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

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Really? Where'd you read this? On alt.conspiracy? I've got a pretty damn fast CD drive, have burned hundreds of CDs, use it every day, etc, and not one CD has failed or disintegrated inside it. And I've not read of _one_ case from any reliable source that indicates that this happens at all, much less on a regular basis.

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realy??? ;)Guess what! It HAS HAPENED TO ME ;) And It was with the 2nd cd of MSFS 2000, I was performing ANOTHER full install of the program because of PC problems and 3m after being in the drive(CD-ROM 50X) I've heard a crack sound and then a lot of noise came from the drive, the eject didn't worked so I had to use the emergency eject, an there it was a perfectly good cd wasted in pieces.... I had to disassemble the drive, clean it up and because of that, bought a new drive (this time a DVD-ROM one) and FS2002 all in the same day ;) (well I was going to buy it either way, it just turned out sooner that predicted.these things happen, more frequently that one might expect I was not the only one, I've heard this a lot of times (specialy with CD-R's and RW's) but can and will happen to originals alike...RegardsSANTOS(LPAV)

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>Really? Where'd you read this? On alt.conspiracy? I've got a>pretty damn fast CD drive, have burned hundreds of CDs, use it>every day, etc, and not one CD has failed or disintegrated>inside it. And I've not read of _one_ case from any reliable>source that indicates that this happens at all, much less on a>regular basis.Guy,A simple search of just this forum would disabuse you of that notion. Please read this recent thread; especially the post by Bob Lecante: http://forums.avsim.com/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=search

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>Really? Where'd you read this? On alt.conspiracy? I've got a pretty damn fast CD drive, have burned hundreds of CDs, use it every day, etc, and not one CD has failed or disintegrated inside it. And I've not read of _one_ case from any reliable source that indicates that this happens at all, much less on a regular basis.:)Cheers,Gosta.http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

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Regardless of everyone's opinions and/or knowledge about the damaging of the CD's, here are some ideas:* Use the original CD and take your chances.* Use a no-CD crack, and risk incompatabilities with programs like FSUIPC and other add-ons.* Use disk imaging software to create a local, on the hard-drive picture of your FS2004 CD. So long as you don't need the 700MB (which isn't *that* big these days), keep it there and enjoy FS2004 without your CD. Personally, I'll be creating an on-drive image. I do too much CD swapping to want to take the chance, PLUS I know my CD burner cannot support the *writing* of Safedisk-type copy protections, so making another CD would be useless. Good luck to all, and to all a good night...-Greg

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In Australia i had just found out recently that you cant make a copy of software that you have perchased for the simple reson makeing a backup copy is considerd piracy.... (but I really dont expect much from Australias backward law system)

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I use the NO CD crack for all my gaming I then put away my cd's and forget about them.I got sick of pulling them in and out.Tony

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>I use the NO CD crack for all my gaming I then put away my>cd's and forget about them.I got sick of pulling them in and>out.>>TonyI really have to chuckle. FS Simmers for the most part are the most anal bunch of anti-piracy folks to hit the road. We openly abuse everyone who even infers that piracy is ok. Yet, we feel completely justified breaking the EULA to make "archival" copies, even to the point of going to the warez site to get those NO-CD Cracks from those dispicable pirates that provide us with such a useful service.What a joke. Pirates may be scum, but they sure can be useful scum sometimes can't they.(BTW...I am against all anti-piracy measures, and think the best way to eliminate or minimize piracy is to provide a great product, and great customer support at a very competitive price. Wal-Mart has somehow become the World's Largest Retailer while retaining the World's most liberal return policy and being one of the most hit targets by shoplifters....)

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You are quite correct, and I am all in favour of such laws as they at last make it possible to go after the people who create software whose sole purpose is to crack software protection (which is written with the express purpose of enabling piracy no matter what the authors may claim).

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I've never had a CD crack in any drive no matter what the speed.That's just another excuse made up by pirates to give some legality to their actions (just as the "punishing large corporations", "it's really a patch and therefore I have a right to get it free", "it's not illegal if I don't make money from it", "I only want to try it before buying", etc. etc.).Actually, people with old drives will be more likely to suffer damaged disks because the bearings that prevent vibrations (which in turn might cause the disk to spin unstable and touch the tray or walls of the drive) wear out in time.

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>>I use the NO CD crack for all my gaming I then put away my>>cd's and forget about them.I got sick of pulling them in and>>out.>>>>Tony>>>I really have to chuckle. FS Simmers for the most part are>the most anal bunch of anti-piracy folks to hit the road. >>We openly abuse everyone who even infers that piracy is ok. >Yet, we feel completely justified breaking the EULA to make>"archival" copies, even to the point of going to the warez>site to get those NO-CD Cracks from those dispicable pirates>that provide us with such a useful service.>some of them maybe. But not all.The only reason I would visit piracy sites is to get screenshots to send to their hosting providers and law enforcement in order to get them shut down..."Archival copies" be damned, if my original breaks after X years of service I replace it with another original. It will have provided more than its money's worth during that time... (in fact, I've done so several times in the past...).>>What a joke. Pirates may be scum, but they sure can be useful>scum sometimes can't they.>yes, to vent frustration and gain some browny points from software manufacturers for turning them in :)>(BTW...I am against all anti-piracy measures, and think the>best way to eliminate or minimize piracy is to provide a great>product, and great customer support at a very competitive>price. Wal-Mart has somehow become the World's Largest>Retailer while retaining the World's most liberal return>policy and being one of the most hit targets by>shoplifters....)>Provinding a great product doesn't prevent piracy. In fact, it attracts it as their is more money to be made from selling pirated copies of a great product than a mediocre one...I am all in favour of anti-piracy measures, the stricter the better.Bring on subscription based software, remote hosted with core components being loaded onto your computer from the manufacturer as you boot the program only after validation of your credentials.Give those away to someone else and YOU pay whenever they use it (as there's a per-use charge involved of course).Current software IS competitive. Especially on FS and related titles margins are minimal. Charge any less and the companies will be running a loss.

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>That's just another excuse made up by pirates to give some legality to their actions.http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

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I have talken to a friend, who is a lawyer specialized in copyright issues. He says, that making back up copies for PERSONAL USE, is not forbidden by Austrian law and by the laws of countries, which are member of the EU. But, if you are burning more back up copies than you need for your personal use, then you will have a legal problem. :-)Just like possessing a certain amount of Marihuana for personal use is not against the law, but owing more that you can personally consume is against the law, because this implies, that you are dealing with it - and this is forbidden.Wolfgang

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>>I use the NO CD crack for all my gaming I then put away my>>cd's and forget about them.I got sick of pulling them in and>>out.>>>>Tony>>>(BTW...I am against all anti-piracy measures, and think the>best way to eliminate or minimize piracy is to provide a great>product, and great customer support at a very competitive>price. Wal-Mart has somehow become the World's Largest>Retailer while retaining the World's most liberal return>policy and being one of the most hit targets by>shoplifters....)>Well said, I always copy my cd's to the harddrive and mount the images. I am really tired of all these protection schemes. They always fail and they are only a pain.

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