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Guest takl23

FLYPFC and Reality-XP Hardware/Software Release

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I've been excited for this release for sometime, but the price tag is huge! The FlyPFC controller is just that, no active screen, it just control's the GNS in the cockpit. The driver costs $99 from Reality-XP and the hardware is $595. I'd buy it today if the price was half that. I'd rather put the time towards flying a real a/c. I understand it's a niche market and the income needs to be maximized. I'm hoping the price will drop at some point. Thoughts?Tim

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As a training tool it is excellent and IMHO worth the price of admission. I probably have a good 20 hours or more going through home sim based GNS430 training using this hardware in either FSX or xPlane in conjunction with texts and videos I have pre viewed before sim flight. The added tactile training you get from having to reach out and physically push the button or turn the knob is incomparible to using the mouse or even a touchscreen. My last BFR the instructor commented on how well I knew my way around the Garmin GPS. It would have cost me $2,000 to $3,000 to rent the plane and get the same hands on type of training and then I wouldn't have had the ability to place the plane in the sim into a situation where I needed to use many of the feature sets the Garmin has. In my case it has paid for itself three to four times over and keeps on giving me the opportunity to learn without additional expenditures.

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I am in the same situation as Zane. I have used the RXP430 to learn the real world unit in a level of detail I could never have done without the folks at RealityXP. I regularly fly with pilots/students who do not have half of the comfort using the 430 as I do (mainly because of my work on the sim). Most folks know how to do ~10 features on the 430 but that is it. Throw them a curve and they quickly get confused. Thanks to RXP, I have spent over 200 hours in all types of situations with the unit. I can usually very quickly get to the areas I need. Not sure I could have done that in a RW airplane. Total cost to me so far...$50. Quite the bargain, I think.Will I get the PFC430? Not sure yet. What I would really like to see is a unit like the PFC430 but with a small LCD screen the same size as the actual 430 (Saitek has LCD driven instruments....but not a 430 ...yet..). No reason it could not be done but it could be 5 years off or never be offered. In the end, I'll likely end up getting it. The RXP430 is my main instrument and ALL of my flying is with it. $600 is alot but for me, I think I will get my money's worth. Another important aspect to me is that Jean-Luc continues to deliver and support a number of very valuable instruments to the flight sim community and I like to support high quality products such as the ones he develops. Initially, I had an irritating bug with my RXP install and he worked patiently with me until it was fixed. That means alot to me.Doug

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I love reality-xp and use almost all their products. What I am saying is, the price for this setup is is pretty high. Of course it's cheaper over time than trying to learn it in a real airplane. I thought that price would be lower.Tim

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I've noticed this trend: RW pilots tend to think FS products aren't expensive because they compare it to RW flight. FS pilots who either can't afford flying, or don't have a license usually say it's really expensive.I'm in the 2nd group, haven't logged time in a few years, and think it's a bit overpriced. We're talking about a piece of metal with buttons on it. There's no way it should be 500 dollars. Now, if it had a LCD screen with the GNS430 display on it - heck yeah... I'd buy it. I agree about tactile feedback - very important for training and much much better than a KB or mouse can provide. I think the cost should be 250-300 for the unit and 50-75 bucks for the RXP driver. 600 would be fine if it had the LCD screen... imho

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I've noticed this trend: RW pilots tend to think FS products aren't expensive because they compare it to RW flight. FS pilots who either can't afford flying, or don't have a license usually say it's really expensive.I'm in the 2nd group, haven't logged time in a few years, and think it's a bit overpriced. We're talking about a piece of metal with buttons on it. There's no way it should be 500 dollars. Now, if it had a LCD screen with the GNS430 display on it - heck yeah... I'd buy it. I agree about tactile feedback - very important for training and much much better than a KB or mouse can provide. I think the cost should be 250-300 for the unit and 50-75 bucks for the RXP driver. 600 would be fine if it had the LCD screen... imho
Actually Ryan, It doesn't matter what you think it is worth. (not meant spirited) If you want to play big boy you are going to have to pay. Just because you see a simple metal box, what you do not see is the engineering of the unit, the software design and implementation, manufacturing, marketing, support and the marginal amount of units that will most likely be sold. It really has become a huge problem that many of us are guilty of, producing high level devices at bargain prices. It simply is not a sustainable market. That my friend is reality. Jim Rhoads

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Then the "big boys" can pay for it, while us underdogs will have to be happy with our point and click interfacesAnd I am... I can click the GNS430W for 50 bucks.

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Then the "big boys" can pay for it, while us underdogs will have to be happy with our point and click interfacesAnd I am... I can click the GNS430W for 50 bucks.
Then why the rant?

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If you check the Reality-XP forums a guy built a full working 530W for about 500 Euros I think he said. I am a student pilot and being able to actually push buttons would be awesome, but a the cost of almost 5+ hours in a real a/c? I just don't think I could justify that price, even if I can afford it.Tim

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It was an opinion, not a rant - isn't that the point of this thread? "Thoughts on the PFC-RXP cost"I was under the impression that this product is a flight sim product... perhaps it's meant for simulators in schools and not FS? There has to be a line drawn somewhere for prices. Real or flight sim? I realize they can't charge 100 bucks for it, or they wouldn't cover the cost. But what will happen if developers start releasing products for FS9/X with a 200 dollar pricetag? I'd say sales will go down and unfortunately maybe even piracy up?Anyway, let's hear some thoughts from non pilots on this...

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I've noticed this trend: RW pilots tend to think FS products aren't expensive because they compare it to RW flight. FS pilots who either can't afford flying, or don't have a license usually say it's really expensive.I'm in the 2nd group, haven't logged time in a few years, and think it's a bit overpriced. We're talking about a piece of metal with buttons on it. There's no way it should be 500 dollars. Now, if it had a LCD screen with the GNS430 display on it - heck yeah... I'd buy it. I agree about tactile feedback - very important for training and much much better than a KB or mouse can provide. I think the cost should be 250-300 for the unit and 50-75 bucks for the RXP driver. 600 would be fine if it had the LCD screen... imho
PFC has a long standing reputation for very high quality durable flight training hardware. Their units are built to withstand many hours of daily use (and abuse) in flight schools for years on end. I can understand the position you are coming from Ryan, but it is a position that is assuming that this is just a metal box with some buttons and knobs and a controller card so it can interface with the software. I looked into producing a similar unit a year ago and the cost of production, especially given a small production run, was too high to justify any profit if sold in the 250-300 range which is what I was shooting for. The cost of buttons and knobs can vary greatly and is dependent on the quality of them. There are cheap ones out there but you really want something that you know will last and not be a maintenance problem in just a few hundred hours of use. The sim entertainment crowd will balk at this price point, as is expected, but I think it's really neat that PFC made the decision to produce this unit to work with not only the FAA approved xPlane which they market with their hardware, but also the consumer level xPlane as well as Microsoft's Flight Simulator.

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It was an opinion, not a rant - isn't that the point of this thread? "Thoughts on the PFC-RXP cost"I was under the impression that this product is a flight sim product... perhaps it's meant for simulators in schools and not FS? There has to be a line drawn somewhere for prices. Real or flight sim? I realize they can't charge 100 bucks for it, or they wouldn't cover the cost. But what will happen if developers start releasing products for FS9/X with a 200 dollar pricetag? I'd say sales will go down and unfortunately maybe even piracy up?If vendors are catering to the professional market (which this product is) it simply does not matter what you think about the price because they know who they are targeting and they have a business model set for the product. There does not have to be any fixed price set Ryan, you will either pay it or you won't. Also don't confuse "products for FS9 / X with products that "use" the FS9 / X / or ESP platform. Especially ESP because of the licensing. Just because you use those products a certain way does not limit the intention and use of another entities and it does not dictate a price point because you are used to a certain one. Why is it that the user expectation rises higher and higher but they are not willing to pay beyond price X? I will answer that for you, because it is the difference between entertainment use and professional use. Whether you like the answer or not (and I know you don't) products and realism has risen to a point that continuing that level of sophistication is not sustainable for an entertainment price point. Not for me anywayPiracy is already rampant. I caught a pirate the other day that posted a review on youtube saying how the product wasn't worth the price paid.When I bounced him and reported him to youtube, the vid magically disappeared. You dont think that costs time and money? There are so many hidden costs that the user never sees, but they are real. Anyway, let's hear some thoughts from non pilots on this...Ryan, Really? What are you expecting the answer to be? I will say it again, if you expect and demand higher levels of realism you better be willing to pay for them.Try going into a avionics shop and telling them you want a GNS430W but it is only worth the price of a 496 to you. See how far that will get you. If your Tower manager ask you to work 20 extra hours per week for the next 6 mo for the same money what will you tell him? The bottom line is a product is either worth the price to you or it is not, and it has nothing to do with what the vendor charges.Jim

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