I am aware of how to fly a "full ILS" in RC, but I have come across a problematic situation.Essentially, the STAR only takes one to a "holding point" from where vectors are apparently given to the localiser which begins some 15 miles directly west of the this holding point.Details:Zurich has MSA of around 4500ft, ILS 14 CAT II approach starts where loc is intercepted at 4000ft, from Gipol via HOC.Now, my query is, given I will be vectored from Gipol in real world, how do I effect this in FS ?Clearly, I will be vectored long before HOC (15 miles from airfield) long before the any of the STARS that use Gipol as the FAF.Therefore, I would need to ask for full ILS, in my case to 14 ILS.But, if I ask for this approach along with NOTAMS and a MSA of 4500 ft, I can easily fly to Gipol. BUT..... from a realism perspective, I would normally be vectored from Gipol...ie. a 15 miles ATCFlies to start of localiser.The ideal route for me is this:LIMC FARA7C.ABE8U URNA2Z LSZH See pic below..... last points on red line are STAR, terminating at Gipol with the locs 15m to west !If you look at this in FSC, you can see my problem. Can this be done in RC ? Or, am I hoping a little too much?Clearly, a wider approach from the West would increase the chances of being vectored more or less correctly, but given the mountainous terrain either side of the approach path, it may be too risky to rely on vectors.One idea for a route like this would be:LIMC FARA7C.ABE8U FRI GRE HOC2Z LSZHIdeally, I would ask for full ILS, and then once at Gippol, ask for Vectors.....hehe ! Not sure I can do this though.Is there a workaround in a situation like this, or not? Clearly, a full ILS tends to end up intercepting the localiser with the FAF firmly ensconsed in the center of it ! But, I would imagine a number of approaches similar to Zurich exist.Thnx for any help, advice or other comments, however rude.Bye.

Hi Gabe, I think I know what you mean. I think in RC4.3 you can request vectors then ask for a full ILS approach later, but you can't request a full ILS approach then ask for vectors. What I usually do is I ask for a full approach, then after I reach the point where vectors are supposed to be given, I choose my headings to get me on the localizer, at which point I receive the instruction to contact tower. It's definitely not a preferred way of doing things, hopefully in RC5 you will be able to ask for vectors at any time, even after doing a STAR.Hope that helps,Al

Gabe,You would have to request IAP at 40 miles out when contacting APP. After that I'd select ILS and Rwy 14. APP will clear you down to the MSA - probably around 4000ft but you should not descend lower than 7000ft at GIPOL.You have to fly the STAR on your own since RC4.3 doesn't know where the high ground is in relation to the airport. Looking at this approach plate from Navigraph you would then fly an outbound heading of 055 from GIPOL until DME 12.9 from IKL - the ILS for Rwy 14 - and then turn right to intercept the localiser and then descend on the glideslope.Not very elegant but when you're surrounded by mountains these things are necessary. That's how I'd do it but I'm not a pilot. If there's someone here who is they may give better advice. But at least if you did it this way you wouldn't 'die' after being vectored into a mountain. :(

Practice flying ILS appraoch to LOWI. Good practicing area - in good weather of course :)

I retrieved a different approach plate from Eurocontrol (free registration - just say you are testing a flightsim) located here.http://ead-website.ead-it.com/publicuser/public/pu/login.jspThen you enter the applications and set up a query in PAMS Light (IAP) for Authority Switzerland (LS), Authority Type civil, AIP type CHARTS, Part AD and execute. Click Search and you'll get three pages of results to scroll and page through. LSZH appears on pages 2 and 3.In your case you arrived at the transition IAF of GIPOL. The chart I'm using is the ILS 16. If you look at the dotted lines they will take you through the path to intercept a straight in to the localizer intercept. The path follows TRA radial (from) 235 to the intercept. After you leave GIPOL minimum at 7,000 you can descend to 6,000 at D10 TRA, then to 5,000 as you corner the IF at D12.9 IKL to intercept the localizer turning inbound, then descend to 4,000 at the FAP of IKL D8.2 where you'll catch the localizer. This is shown a bit more clearly in the vertical profile.

Thnx all for your comments.I get the basic idea here, and this agrees with peter2000.co.uk 's real world flight to Zurich, where he had to hold at Gipol and was then given a 50degree vector.But, I think it will be difficult to intercept the ILS at what is a 90 degree (adjacent) intercept using a typical APPR on the AP.....not nice. Also, this may be easy enough with a GPS, but I doubt you can officially use a GPS for such an approach.One would have thought an additional vector of say 95 degrees for ILS 14 would be given, necessitating another bank to the right in order to give you the 45 degree intercept course.Anyway, I'm more interersted in how to use RC to effect such an approach, and agree with you, that I'd have to "pretend" I've been vectored from Gipol in order to intercept the localiser. Just have to hope its VFR conditions so I can find the damn thing !Yes it's a shame RC can't allow you to do the full ils and then ask for vectors....but heh, nothings perfect in life and rC does a pretty good job....except I find it expects altitude changes to be almost instantaneous at times....very impatient they are !Thnx again for your help guys.

Here's how to "cheat" your way in :) :1. If your aircraft has an FMC/FMS it might already have the approach in its terminal procedure database. See if it matches they waypoints in your plan and if so let the FMC use HNAV to guide you around the ninety degree turn. Many RNAV approaches have this soft waypoint to mark the turn in that database. Modify the LEGS pages as needed. This can apply to GPS guidance as well if it displays terminal procedures.2. As in 1. you can create your own "local" custom waypoints to mark the turn point boundary or define two waypoints to create a curves intercept.3. Use HDG control with your MCP or AP. As your GPS or NAV display shows a bearing of 30 degrees to the airport start turning your aircraft inbound. Watch the OBS localizer indication and as it nears center and you are a few degrees from the inbound heading engage first LOC/VOR mode. When the GS indicator is one division above engage APP mode if a glide slope is present. Insure that the correct ident is shown or heard for an APP as in some default airports in FS the ILS equipment at each end of a runway may share the same frequency and in FS default ILS equipment they do not turn off the backcourse function. This can result in reversed guidance and an incorrect glideslope unless with two degrees of center line.4. The RC window shows a bearing to the airport which as in 3. you can use as an indication of when to start your turn.Be sure if in difficult terrain to be aware of obstacles and randomly start a vector in too early so you will not cross obstacles off the clear inbound flight path at two low an altitude.

Here's how to "cheat" your way in :) :1. If your aircraft has an FMC/FMS it might already have the approach in its terminal procedure database. See if it matches they waypoints in your plan and if so let the FMC use HNAV to guide you around the ninety degree turn. Many RNAV approaches have this soft waypoint to mark the turn in that database. Modify the LEGS pages as needed. This can apply to GPS guidance as well if it displays terminal procedures.2. As in 1. you can create your own "local" custom waypoints to mark the turn point boundary or define two waypoints to create a curves intercept.3. Use HDG control with your MCP or AP. As your GPS or NAV display shows a bearing of 30 degrees to the airport start turning your aircraft inbound. Watch the OBS localizer indication and as it nears center and you are a few degrees from the inbound heading engage first LOC/VOR mode. When the GS indicator is one division above engage APP mode if a glide slope is present. Insure that the correct ident is shown or heard for an APP as in some default airports in FS the ILS equipment at each end of a runway may share the same frequency and in FS default ILS equipment they do not turn off the backcourse function. This can result in reversed guidance and an incorrect glideslope unless with two degrees of center line.4. The RC window shows a bearing to the airport which as in 3. you can use as an indication of when to start your turn.Be sure if in difficult terrain to be aware of obstacles and randomly start a vector in too early so you will not cross obstacles off the clear inbound flight path at two low an altitude.

Crikey, I'll need to get some sleep before I tackle that little lot ! But, thnx very much for your time with that. I'll have a good study tomorrow.Thnx.