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aldridgem

Graphics Card upgrade?

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Hi All,Looking for some advice on a minor graphics card update.I currently have a 7600GS 256MB card running on an E6600 CPU and 3GB RAM on WinXP.I'd like to stick with this system until I have the time/budget to build myself a new top-notch PC.Until then, I wondering if an upgrade to an 8600GT 512MB would help the smoothness in flight and complex airport sceneries in FSX? There's stil some of these old cards floating around so for a small investment of ~$30, would I see much gain in FSX performance?The reason for the 8600GT is my motherboard supports only PCI-e 1.0 and I may be limited by the power supply - right now the card plugs directly in the the mainboard with no additional power connections needed.Is the 8600GT as far as I can go with these limitations? I believe 88xxx cards come with PCI-e 2.0 so while it would work, I would only have half the bandwidth available. Is this right?ThxMark

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Your processor is the bottleneck. A gpu upgrade may improve image quality, but smoothness and frame rate are obtained with processor power and fast ram. So, I'd sooner do a minor cpu upgrade. Get cheap E8600 and overclock it to 4 GHz, make sure your mobo supports that cpu and that BIOS allows OC.

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exactly, that little GPU upgrade is hardly worth it. It would only be worth it if you were to get a higher end GPU like the GTX 285 or GTX 460

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Hi All,Looking for some advice on a minor graphics card update.I currently have a 7600GS 256MB card running on an E6600 CPU and 3GB RAM on WinXP.I'd like to stick with this system until I have the time/budget to build myself a new top-notch PC.Until then, I wondering if an upgrade to an 8600GT 512MB would help the smoothness in flight and complex airport sceneries in FSX? There's stil some of these old cards floating around so for a small investment of ~$30, would I see much gain in FSX performance?The reason for the 8600GT is my motherboard supports only PCI-e 1.0 and I may be limited by the power supply - right now the card plugs directly in the the mainboard with no additional power connections needed.Is the 8600GT as far as I can go with these limitations? I believe 88xxx cards come with PCI-e 2.0 so while it would work, I would only have half the bandwidth available. Is this right?ThxMark
Hi Mark,FSX is definitely a CPU (processor) intensive program because it does many many calculations. The video card upgrade you mention will be unimportant. Also, the 8600 GT from ASUS which I used to have, DOES plug into the power supply with a dedicated power chord if I recall. So you won't be well off with this. The performance gain will be barely noticeable also. If your mother supports it, try a better CPU like maybe an E8400 if these are still available.John

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Guest veeray

What are you guys on? Increasing the GPU power always results in more frames per second. It's a symbiotic relation :)If you can get a cheap 8800GT I would do it, otherwise save the money for a CPU/Motherboard upgrade

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Were on nothing but knowledge. Yo, FSX is tied to the CPU, a major GPU upgrade is great but a small one like this is rubbish...

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Were on nothing but knowledge. Yo, FSX is tied to the CPU, a major GPU upgrade is great but a small one like this is rubbish...
Aaay! I'll drink to that! Cheers! :Big Grin:

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Guest veeray

Really so you don't think upgrading to a DX10 card with support for HD is worth it such as the 8800GT? Next time someone asks about a card upgrade, go to GPUREVIEW and see what they're actually dealing with... I think that rule/advice is stickied for a reason.

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Nope! Almost No one uses DX10 with FSX and if you knew anything, you would know that much.Why spend 80-100$ to see 1-2FP/S more dry.gif Besides, he said 8600GT not 8800GT he obviously doesn' want to spend that money.

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Yeah well when there's only a 10 dollar price difference feel free to make a suggestion like I did for a truly beefier card. And no my friend has an 8800GTS that I gave him and he has less of a CPU, and he got twice the fps increase. If you think FSX is CPU bound, obviously you have no idea how to use the settings. There is no reason FSX can't get 60fps.

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he got twice the fps increase
sure he did0 x 2 = 0 hehe, just kiddin

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Yeah well when there's only a 10 dollar price difference feel free to make a suggestion like I did for a truly beefier card. And no my friend has an 8800GTS that I gave him and he has less of a CPU, and he got twice the fps increase. If you think FSX is CPU bound, obviously you have no idea how to use the settings. There is no reason FSX can't get 60fps.
Haha Ya right 60FP/S sure he did, his setting were on Ultra, Ultra LOWAnd what was your friends card before ati prehestoric v.1 with GPU clock of 50Mhz and And Mem clock of 35Mhz
sure he did0 x 2 = 0 hehe, just kiddin
:Applause: LOL.gif That would be priceless

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Guest veeray

Waste of my time... I can't deal with 13 year old kids who know nothing about computers... Saying FSX is cpu bound is not only the silliest thing it just shows you have no clue. Second saying a MAJOR GPU upgrade won't improve performace because of the CPU is just uttlerly re****ed

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Waste of my time... I can't deal with 13 year old kids who know nothing about computers... Saying FSX is cpu bound is not only the silliest thing it just shows you have no clue. Second saying a MAJOR GPU upgrade won't improve performace because of the CPU is just uttlerly re****ed
Look:GTX460 @ 715MHz / 1800MHz & 100% traffic:Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg 7784, 300000, 17, 38, 25.947GTX460 @ 870MHz / 2200MHz & 100% traffic:Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg 7708, 300000, 16, 38, 25.693.... so no benefit from overclocking. Now without traffic:GTX460 @ 715MHz / 1800MHz & 0% traffic:Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg 10877, 300000, 23, 52, 36.257GTX460 @ 870MHz / 2200MHz & 0% traffic:Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg 10909, 300000, 24, 54, 36.363again the same. Everybody knows FSX is CPU bound

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Guest veeray

please .. this from the guy who bought the wrong 460... You really know a lot about what you're talking about don't you :)End of story then, send me the 460, I'll send you an 8800GTS in return. Do we have a deal? If no then why did you go through the hassle of exchanging the 460 if FSX is so cpu bound as you claim.

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I never said I was a hardware guru or something like that. It was a few months ago when I decided to switch to FSX and built my first rig for that purpose, and believe me, I've made worse choices than the 465, but I've learned a few things in the process.That's obviously not your case. Come down and do your homework: I've tested 5 different cards with the same results. What do you have to back up your words?

please .. this from the guy who bought the wrong 460... You really know a lot about what you're talking about don't you :)End of story then, send me the 460, I'll send you an 8800GTS in return. Do we have a deal? If no then why did you go through the hassle of exchanging the 460 if FSX is so cpu bound as you claim.

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Really well first of all you are getting horrendous frame rates... when you can pull 50+ FPS on your system and have it setup right, we'll continue this discussion on benchmarks.

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Really well first of all you are getting horrendous frame rates... when you can pull 50+ FPS on your system and have it setup right, we'll continue this discussion on benchmarks.
Veeray,I think you're forgetting the original posting here and the video cards that the person was talking about. There will BE a frame rate improvement from the 7600 to the 8800 but not very much. Not as much as if the CPU was upgraded to a new generation CPU. I just upgraded my video card from an Nvidia 8600GT (not even a GTS) 256MB to an ATI (Sapphire) 5770 1GB. Frame rates for Amsterdam X by Aerosoft are: 8fps when taxiing! With the 8600, I had the Aerosoft Paris CDG (I did not have the Amsterdam yet as it was not out), and my frame rates were about 8-12fps when taxiing! With the 5770 at CDG, I believe I was getting about the same, maybe a bit more. But this video upgrade is a MAJOR video upgrade and what the original poster of this thread is considering is not a major upgrade.Just an FYI ...John

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Really well first of all you are getting horrendous frame rates... when you can pull 50+ FPS on your system and have it setup right, we'll continue this discussion on benchmarks.
Dude I am a hardware guru and I Do know what im talking about and I can tell you that you would be right....... for 99% of games, but FSX IS NOT GPU BOUND. The GPU plays a big role BUT only a major upgrade makes a difference. Really your wasting our time aruging about something you know nothing about. Ask anyone in the forums and they tell you that WERE right!! @Byrna The reason you got bad frames is that the card is Ati and it has a few problems with FSX -_- If you would have got a GTX 460, 470, 480 there would have been a big improvement, but not with that.

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Veeray - Yoou are so far wrong it is laughable. Obviously it is you who knows nothing about FSX. I have been building and maintaining computers and networks since the days of CP/M and I do know what I am talking about.FSX is CPU bound - period. You need raw processing power to get the best out of it. Put the best available video card in against a decent card with the same processor and you'll not see much of a difference. Now, when you start geting to 4ghz and above, the quality of the GPU starts coming into the mix and you'll get a bigger difference BUT not a major one.This only applies to FSX - any other games etc are a different story - remember FSX is really old technology as games go.To get the best out of FSX you need to get a balance of raw power (FPS) and image quality. Lower the quality and you'll get significantly higher frames but with stutters and problems.Vic

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Dude I am a hardware guru and I Do know what im talking about and I can tell you that you would be right....... for 99% of games, but FSX IS NOT GPU BOUND. The GPU plays a big role BUT only a major upgrade makes a difference. Really your wasting our time aruging about something you know nothing about. Ask anyone in the forums and they tell you that WERE right!! @Byrna The reason you got bad frames is that the card is Ati and it has a few problems with FSX -_- If you would have got a GTX 460, 470, 480 there would have been a big improvement, but not with that.
It has nothing to do with the 5770 being an ATI card. The ati issues are driver related, but they don't perform any worse than nvidias (except for clouds, that is actually a driver issue too but it effects performance cause ATI drivers are not optimized for the FSX shader implementation)If a small GPU upgrade doesn't help, neither will a great upgrade. That's what happens when you have a bottleneck somewhere else (the CPU in FSX)
Veeray - Yoou are so far wrong it is laughable. Obviously it is you who knows nothing about FSX. I have been building and maintaining computers and networks since the days of CP/M and I do know what I am talking about.FSX is CPU bound - period. You need raw processing power to get the best out of it. Put the best available video card in against a decent card with the same processor and you'll not see much of a difference. Now, when you start geting to 4ghz and above, the quality of the GPU starts coming into the mix and you'll get a bigger difference BUT not a major one.This only applies to FSX - any other games etc are a different story - remember FSX is really old technology as games go.To get the best out of FSX you need to get a balance of raw power (FPS) and image quality. Lower the quality and you'll get significantly higher frames but with stutters and problems.Vic
So you've seen 4GHz+ CPU starting to overcome the CPU bottleneck? can you please let us know the details? (CPU model, cards you tested, performance gain...)That's very interesting indeed :)

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It has nothing to do with the 5770 being an ATI card. The ati issues are driver related, but they don't perform any worse than nvidias (except for clouds, that is actually a driver issue too but it effects performance cause ATI drivers are not optimized for the FSX shader implementation)If a small GPU upgrade doesn't help, neither will a great upgrade. That's what happens when you have a bottleneck somewhere else (the CPU in FSX)
Listen I've told you once I'll say it again. I had a C2D @3.3Ghz E6600 and I went from the ATi 4580 to the GTX 470, a major upgrade with some major results. Like 20 FP/S better. And yes overall Ati cards can't perform in FSX as well as Nvidia Period.

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Thanks for clarifying how much of a hardware guru you are, and how trustworthy your benchmark results were

Listen I've told you once I'll say it again. I had a C2D @3.3Ghz E6600 and I went from the ATi 4580 to the GTX 470, a major upgrade with some major results. Like 20 FP/S better. And yes overall Ati cards can't perform in FSX as well as Nvidia Period.

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