Handoffs

[Guest Jim Burke]

This question is for the real world pilots. Do flight controllers hand off your flight near as often as in the FS 2002 & 2004? I assume it would be more often in busier areas. It seems unless I am out in the middle of nowhere I am forever getting changed. Thanks in advance!Jim B.

[Geofa 108]

It depends on who owns the airspace and where. Sometimes individual controllers will even have you change freqs. in their area. I took a short 50nm flight 2 days ago-had four controllers on that flight-one who had me change freqs. to stay with.From what I have found fs is pretty good (I think it uses airspace data tables of some kind). The only problem I have noticed which probably can't be done without a huge restructuring is when doing practice approaches and being controlled by the local approach controller-when being sent on the downwind-sometimes you are instructed to contact another agency-when in reality you would be working that facilities approach the whole time.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/Geofdog2.jpg

[Guest daveg4otu]

Doesn't happen to often while you're crossing the Atlantic.But ,if you were approaching a busy field you could go thru three ,four or even five frequencies (Airways-Zone-Approach-Tower-ground) in the space of 50 or 60 miles.I think that ,probably,it would be more often in real life while flying airways in Europe/UK.The sectors are not large here and each sector has a different freq/controller.Dave

[robertmpratt 0]

I fly the San Francisco Bay Area, and sometimes on a flight from KWVI (my home base) north across the East Bay, I get handed off every few miles, it seems. A few times, I've been handed off, called up the next controller and then immediately been handed off again. That's during the day. On one very early morning flight, I went from KLVK to KWVI with the same controller. Ever since the regional approach controls consolidated into Norcal Approach this past year, the situation seems a little more extreme--way more handoffs during the day and way less handoffs at night.Rob Pratt

[michal 44]

There is however one thing that apparently is wrong in FS9 - when they hand you off they don't necessarrily make you squawk a different code. Some airline pilot on this forum recently stated that based on his experience the code stays with the flight all the way through. In FS9 they like to mess around with your code.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

[Guest]

Flying VFR in Germany, you have to change your codes all the time. For instance, while flying through Frankfurt FIR, you get a "group code" which is 3701 or 3702, depending on your altitude. All neighbouring FIRs assign another code. Flying IFR, your code stays the same all through the flight.Handoffs don't occur in real life all that often. Usually, crossing Germany VFR S to N, you change your frequency about 6 times.FS9 seems to have fixed boundaries for frequencies, so sometimes you have to change back and forth between 2 frequencies a couple of times. Not very realistic.And there seems to be a problem with the frequency list. The other day I was flying IFR in the vicinity of Hamburg (N Germany) and was told to change to Colmar approach (France, near the SW border of Germany, about 600 NM away)!Fussel

[bdenni 0]

This is an area that computer simulation cannont truly emulate real human reasoning. FS is looking at the physical sector maps that they have obtained from the FAA and based on that map, direct you to change frequency from one control position to another. In reality, if you are crossing over the tip of a sector, one controller might handle your aircraft even though it is not his/her sector and then hand you off to the third sector. The first controller is constantly coordinating the traffic with the second controller in this instance and more often then not, is seated next to that controller.This is one of the arguments why we don't have unmanned aircraft in major use today. Logic is typically limited to Yes and No. Humans are supposed to be able to look at the situation and make a reasonable decision that does not always follow Yes and No.

[Guest Rafael Cervera]

However, offtopic maybe, is it possible that MSFS ATC goes haywire once in a while? On a cross country flight which lasted about 4 hrs. I started to get handed off every 3 to 5 minutes for about 5 times around 90 minutes into the flight and then the ATC calmed down.

[briansommers 74]

this is a great thread, i have a question for you r/w pilotsand that is, what maps, or whatever do you use to know these frequencies?for example, suppose i take off out of xyz airport and im flying vfr, so after i have permission from tower, and climb out then atc tower says leaving area persmission for freq. change in fs9 i can easily open the atc window to see what to tune to next, for instance if i want flight following. but in real life you cant do this, so what chart or whatever do you r/w pilots use to look up to know who to contact next?thanksciao!Brian S

[michal 44]

>>>for example, suppose i take off out of xyz airport and im>flying vfr, so after i have permission from tower, in this case you would know what frequency to change to since ground clearance would have given you so called "departure frequency" just before your takeoff. It is part of the info you get during ground release.>real life you cant do this, so what chart or whatever do you>r/w pilots use to look up to know who to contact next?Pilots are normally told what frequency to switch to when they traverse different airspaces while on an IFR flight plan.A handoff would include your next frequency.It is only when you are VFR and all of a sudden want to fly IFR and say want to shoot approach to some airport then you have to open the map and find the nearest applicable approach frequency. And when you finally near the airport they would tell you to switch to tower frequency - most likely they asume you know what the tower frequency is !!!Edit: I am sorry I just realized you were asking about flying VFR out of the airport. In this case "permission to leave frequ" is a bit meaningless - you may switch to whatever you want, remember that you can conduct a legal VFR flight without talking to anyone provided you don't cross any B,C or D airspaces.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

[Guest nramsey]

Yep, I've had ATC go haywire on me to. I can't recall where I was flying but I was apparently right on one of the zone lines or something, as ATC was switching me back and forth between two frequencies. Literally as soon as I checked in on the new freq, I was sent back to the previous, and over and over and over probably about 15 times before I said screw it. I just recognized the freq change, but didn't change. Flew on for a few minutes, then checked in with the new controller and everything was fine again. Strange.Nate

[briansommers 74]

oh yeah, i guess ground does give you that freq.well what i meant was, what happens when your taking off of an uncontrolled airport?ciao!Brian S

[michal 44]

Brian,I edited my reply to you above. Read again. I didn't realize you were taking VFR. For VFR - it is very easy, no freque is required unless you fly through some controlled airport/airspace. And then you obviously know these fequencies from the map.There is no "ground release" in the VFR world. You can be like JFK junior - flying alone and not talking to anybody (provided you don't violate any controlled airspace). And once you enter some controlled airspace -yes, it is your own responsibility to know about it and tune right freq. A VFR pilot would most likely obtain such frequency from his sectional chart.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

[Geofa 108]

I remember once there was some talk about this in fs2002 the southern ca area.Then when I flew out there a year ago-there was a zone if I recall just east of San Diego where the desert ends and the mountains start where I got switched between socal app. and la app. several times rapidly. Same when I headed up the LA basin-quite a few rapid changes back and forth.Point is-fs used data tables to define where airspace begins and ends-there may be a problem or two when one flies back and forth for instance in between two zones rapidly. But for the most part-the reality is pretty good. I am still amazed I can fly for instance at low altitude across my state and be handed off to terminal controllers that match reality the whole way with proper facility names-and where it should happen. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/Geofdog2.jpg

[Guest Salbado]

Low Altitude Airways Charts usually show the Sector and the Freq.Sal