I have read hours and hours worth of great info for a new system but I am still really confused.Some people have mid range systems and have no problems ruuning FS9.I am going to purchase a new system after reading the replies to this post.I guess you could say this will be my decision maker.If I keep putting it off I will never get a new PC.I need some suggestions for a system in the mid to high range as well as the ever debateable issue of video cards. I know it would be cheaper to build my own but I don't know anything about building one.From your replies I am going to add up what the most suggestions are.IE: NVIDIA/RADEON/ P4 2.4/2.8/3.0/ ETC>>>>Thanks for your help I think LOL!!!JodyKHOUReal World PilotOH!!! DON"T WORRY I WON"T HOLD ANYONE RESPONSIBLE IF MY NEW SYSTEM DOESN"T RUN FS9 MAXED OUT!!!!LOL

Jody, I just recenly purchased a Dell dimension 4600 and I am pretty happy with it. This is a 2.8Ghz PC with HyperThreading, 512 MB Ram and the ATI 9800 Radeon Video Card. I installed FS2004 and have several programs running in the background including Norton Anti virus and it FS2004 still really performs well. Most of the settings are maxed out or 1 notch below maxed except I have the 3D clouds in the mid range. The clouds cause a pretty good hit and even a little stutering when set to high, even on this machine, but in the mid range setting, they still look good and the sim runs well.My Scenery setting is very dense as is the autogen, Also ATC is at 95 percent.Overall, on the ground at Heathrow, a very dense airport in FS2004, I see frame rates in the 25+ category and higher. In the air, frame rates are easily in the 40' and 50's. When flying on a clear day, I have seen frame rates above that.Overall I have been very happy with this PC. There are some video issues with the ATI card, mostly the flickering menu's. Some people report fuzzy text but I do not see that. Overall I am happy with the ATI card. I have the std not the Pro. I think the pro just runs at a faster speed (a few more fps??).For RAM, I highly recommend at least 512 MB, I really think it helps keep the sim smooth (little stuttering).By the way, I went with a standard 19" monitor as opposed to a flat panel. I like the way that FS2004 looks on the 19" std.Good Luck,Mark

Jody, There are some things that you should definitely get on a new PC:1. I recommend going with Intel and not AMD. If you go with Intel, make sure you get a motherboard with the i875P chipset and Socket 478. This setup will enable you to utilize hyperthreading (assuming you use P4 Northwood processor), and the next generation Pentiums will almost certainly use Socket 478 as well.2. Choose a good motherboard. Before I bought my system, I did quite a bit of looking for the best motherboard I could find. A top-shelf motherboard can buy you a few frames per second and rock solid performance.3. Don't buy from Dell, Gateway, etc. You're not going to get top-quality components and you'll end up paying more than you should.4. Don't buy from Alienware, Falcon NW, Voodoo, etc. You will get top-quality components, but you'll pay a premium price.One great choice for a computer seller is Oxford PC. (www.oxfordpc.com). Their prices are excellent, you can choose any component you want (including the case that you want), and they'll have your new computer to you in 2-3 weeks. As for video, ATI or NVidia is a hard decision. I chose NVidia because I've always had problems with ATI drivers. There is some concern over the latest benchmarks on Half Life 2, but not enough to worry me. Everyone I know who uses ATI has driver issues. If you do choose NVidia, I would go with the 5900 for sure. You might also want to consider the Asus 5900 because it's the only 5900 that doesn't have a cooling system that covers up one of your PCI slots. It's also extremely overclockable.Jim

Excellent advice from Jim, I agree. Read the fine print, you need to bone up on specs and brands, it is easy to get substandard parts even though it sounds good.I just ordered a new box myself, I could have put it together, but after adding up the parts from newegg and other places and figuring in the hassle and my time constrants, plus the deal I got after talking to the rep, I went with the online one. I went with AMD again, with the new 3200 cpu, the ASUS NForce 2 DX board, 1 gig GEil high performace PC3700 DDR, etc. I left out the card as they wanted to much, I have a G4 4600 128 Mb one and I plan the get a new one at XMas.The main reason I went with AMD is nearly every problem post I have read with FS9, the specs have been with Intel, this is NOT a slam on Intel, just an observation. I may be limiting my furture upgradable route, but with the rate technology changes and the fact that this setup cost me half what a new PC would, I can justify it.My 2 centsGood luck!I know 2 simmers that got their (not mine) PCs here and they rock. http://www.abscomputers.com/Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com

You really can't go wrong with AMD either. I chose Intel this go around, but my last computer (the one I'm using until my new system arrives in about a week) is running an AMD 1800. It's been rock-solid stable and a great performer. If you do get AMD and decide to go with an Intel solution later, you can always change the motherboard later on for a couple of hundred bucks max.ABS Computers does looks pretty decent. I wish they had a greater selection of components. For example, you can't select which case you want. When I built my new system, I wanted a Coolermaster Wavemaster case. This case has great cooling properties (including the fact that it is 100% high-quality aluminum), so a lesser case wasn't an option for me. Buying from Oxford PC allowed me to choose exactly the case I wanted. I also wanted the PC4000 RAM instead of 3200 or 3700. Oxford sold me a matched pair of Corsair XMS PC4000 DIMMs for $385. That's an excellent price for extremely good memory. Oxford was one of the only companies I could find that had access to this memory.I'll tell you another story that really solidified my choice of Oxford PC. When I ordered my system, I ordered the ABIT IC7-G Max2 motherboard. About two hours after I ordered my system, Oxford's part supplier informed them that they had a shipment of the brand new ABIT IC7-G Max3 motherboards, the first motherboards with OTES cooling built in. James at Oxford PC e-mailed me and told me that he highly recommended the upgrade to the Max3, but he insisted that he upgrade me at no charge to me! The Max3 was quite a bit more money, but they gave it to me at the Max2 price. Why? Because Oxford knew that I got the Max2 because it was the best at the time, and now that the Max3 was available, they felt it was unethical to charge me more money for an upgraded component! Incredible!I can't say enough good things about Oxford PC. You can get a budget system from them just as easily, and you'll be sure that everything is of the highest quality. I'm not affiliated with them in any way. I'm just very pleased with their service and want to do them the service of spreading the word.Jim

Let's not forget the Athlon 64 is right around the corner (selling in Japan now). I'd be willing to bet the Athlon 64 outruns the fastest P4 in MSFS and most other apps when it comes out. Previews already show it doing that :) On the subject of video cards, anyone who recommends an Nvidia video card after the recent cheating/horrible performance debacles, either doesn't know what they're talking about, or is an Nvidiot. The GFFX line plays current games fine (as in DX8 games) but is virtually unable to play DX9 games without horribly reduced image quality through its cheating drivers. Do you want to pay $400-$500 for a video card that can't run DX9 games without falling on its face? I know I sure don't...The Radeon 9800XT will be out in a couple weeks. If you're looking for a new video card, I'd say anything from the 9800 series will do just fine (9800 non-pro, 9800 Pro, and 9800XT). -Max Cowgill

By all means go look at Cyberpower. I have a couple of their machines for my wife and I, and they all work great. They have good phone support and offer an inexpensive "at home" repair option as well. The only draw back here, is they ship the parts to you, and you return the old ones back to them yourself. Once you have the parts, their service people do get right out however. But this is much slower than others such as Dell who over-night them to their repair people for next business day service.What I like about them is first the price. They are as low a cost as I have found anywhere. And their "Configurator" offerings show that they "have been there". They offer the "must have" items such as extra large power supplies, multi-hard drives, better quality keyboard and mouse options, and extra fan packages, etc.Cyberpower components are first class. And I agree, Dell stuff is not always the best - I could go on here ... like using a standard sound card which was labeled as Sound Blaster Live 5.1, but the "quad" chip was specially and secretly removed just for them only (Dell), and used as their standard stereo card, without telling the buyer it was NOT really a full-function SBL card as it was labeled. Also their name brand video cards are sometimes proprietary to just them, and consequently will not be serviced by the original manufactured (They will force you back to Dell because, among other things, the driver may be different).Expect to configure a top-end flight sim type machine with top quality parts for about $500 to $700 below Dell. Then, in my case, add another 6% savings on that high price because Dell charges sales tax here in Florida. At times Cyberpower also offers free shipping specials. My Cyberpower machines have arrived in first class working order with all the proper drivers installed. (Not always the case with others.)I'll be upgading myself soon for FS-9. I just can't beat the overall value for the dollar that you get with Cyberpower, and since I have another machine, I can wait a couple of extra days on parts if something goes wrong.http://www.cyberpowerinc.comBob (Lecanto, Fl)AMD, Athlon XP, 2200+

No reason for ad hominem, Max. There are many people out there who prefer NVidia to ATI, mainly because ATI has always written very problematic drivers. The frame rate issue you describe is only with one game; Half Life 2. NVidia has already said that its rev 50 drivers are written to dramatically improve performance on DX9 games. Since no one has tested with those drivers (including Valve), your statement has no foundation. Other benchmarks show the 5900 neck in neck with the 9800, and many show the NVidia chipset beating the 9800. In all cases, NVidia drivers are more stable than ATI drivers. Just look at all of the issues people are having here with ATI drivers! And not just in games either. Just rendering the Windows UI is causing problems for ATI drivers. No thanks.Even with the DX9 code path in Half Life 2, the NVidia cards are running at approximately 40-50 fps. That's with drivers that are not optimized for the DX9 platform. It's easy to understand why NVidia doesn't have their current release drivers optimized for DX9. The current games are running the DX8 code path. I personally prefer NVidia. I have NEVER had a problem with drivers. My sister purchased a computer with an ATI card and it crashed all the time. The problem was the ATI driver. She's one of many I know of with that experience. I choose the path of least resistance.Jim

No need to build yourself in order to save $$.On top of the other suggestions I also offer you this one. This person has been frequently on this forum and she knows what FS users need. Her prices are unbeatable (I checked against other suggestions in this thread) plus she offers very personalized service (for example she can offer desktop cases or other solutions that other vendors no longer provide - I happen to like desktop cases). Or you have old PC and would like to transfer som data to your new PC HD - she will help. Go to her site - she runs forum where you can ask for quotes, talk hardware. http://www.progresssystemsinc.com/Michael J.

One thing you want to watch for is computer resellers selling OEM parts. You don't want OEM parts. You want genuine out-of-the-box parts.Jim

>mainly because ATI has always>written very problematic drivers. >It does sound like someone saying he would never buy Toyota because Toyota's quality is at the bottom of the list. And yes, this was true 20 years ago - today they happen to be at the top of the quality ratings. Apparently ATI's drivers woes belong to the past or at the very least they improved drastically.Judging by what different people have been saying here on Avsim (and I have been trying to monitor it carefully) it is difficult not to reach conclusion that at least as far as FS is concerned the picture quality that ATI 9800 offers is simply currently beyond the reach of any Nvidia card.(I don't own an ATI card).Michael J.

Do a search here for "ATI driver problem". You'll hit plenty. That's because the latest ATI drivers cause a lot of problems, not just in FS, but in Windows in general.This is not a scientific approach by any means, but I did a search in this forum for "ati driver problem" and ended up with almost 900 hits. A search for "nvidia driver problem" turns up a bit over 400. You do the math.I have seen no indication that ATI has hired anyone with the ability to write reliable drivers. Their drivers are still very problematic.Jim

>Do a search here for "ATI driver problem". You'll hit>plenty. When I search for "Nvidia driver .." I also hit plenty .. ;)Michael J.

I remembered reading a review that put the 5900 and 9800 neck in neck with no clear winner. I finally found it:http://www.hardavenue.com/reviews/5900u9800p.shtmlRead that and you'll see that the 5900 beat the 9800 in some benchmarks (by a razor's edge) and vice versa. The moral of the story is either one is going to give you top-rate performance. I choose NVidia over ATI because of past experience with driver issues, and the freaked out text issue people report here with the latest ATI drivers seems to indicate to me that ATI isn't out of the woods yet concerning that problem. However, one thing's for sure; this battle between ATI and NVidia sure is giving us some great graphics processing power! I hope the two continue to be neck in neck.Jim

........ it's "picture quality - stupid".