I reached that pont with turning the other cheek with dishonesty some time ago with you Steve. If you can state that I attempted in any way to re-install your software after I was give a refund, then I really do feel sorry for you. George Stoddard

Racartron"And the customer has deprived himself of the enjoyment of flying one of the better designed model around."I have to laugh when some of those people see the New FSD Porter they will buy it and go sulking quietly to their rooms mumbling how FSD made me pay for it. You just have no idea how good it really is. It is going to set many new standards. It will take your breath away and make you giddy the first time you set in the cockpit. The night lighting is like nothing ever seen before in Flight simulator. And with all the oohs and aahs the smoothness and framerates are simple unbelieveable.Dont take my word for it. Just wait for the accolades to start coming in.This is what Flight Simulator is all about for me. Fun, fun and more fun.Dennis Waggoner

" As far as trying to install after refund, that is absolutely, positively a LIE, and you know it!The plane I was attempting to re-install was one that I had NOT received a refund on."You know better than that George. We refunded all of your purchases. Every dime. We simply did not want to put up with any further abuse from you. And we are not going to sit quietly and let you BS these folks here.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

When someone abuses a person who is trying to resolve someone's problems in a productive way, it is not always possible not ignore personal abuse. In those cases - as you well know from experience - we appeal to that user for restraint from abuse. When that fails - as it did in your case - we then part company, no hard feelings ... that is, unless that person proceeds to embark on a dishonest crusade such as you have done for the last few months. It is hard to separate the two concepts of creativity and business, whilst someone is urinating on both of your boots, and on your carpet. Now, in your case George, I really hope you this is "nuf said". We have plenty of agreeable friends we'd prefer to spend our time productively assisting than fending off this BS......Steve SmallCanberra, Australiahttp://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

Server logs do not lie......Steve SmallCanberra, Australiahttp://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

Tim, Look back at the e-mails between FSD and I. The add-on that you refunded(not at my request by the way) was the Commander, on 6/4/2003.The add-on that I tryed to re-nstall because of software problems was the Cheyenne on 7/31/2003. I promptly received a response back from Steve saying that I had been refunded on the Cheyenne. I'm sure this was and honest mistake at this time by Steve by just simply confusing the two add-ons. I did at that time request a refund on the Cheyenne because I didn't want to go down the same road again with ya'll. I have not, at any time since 7/31/2003, attempted to install the Cheyenne, and you know it. In fact, I have since had problems with another FSD add-on after the Cheyenne when I tried to upgrade it to 2004, but rather than go through more abuse, I just chose to delete it of my system and move on.George Stoddard

The only personal abuse that took place during our e-mail communication was from you towards me and you know it. Of course, I'm not the "highly respected and known" Steve Small, so I really don't expect anyone to believe me, but instead believe your BS,,, except for the others YOU have urinated on.George Stoddard

If you didn't, then someone else who uses your ISP block guessed both your License ID and password and got it right first time. We didn't want the inevitable hassle that was guaranteed to follow any communication with you at the time, so we let it slide, but it looks like no matter what I did it was guaranteed to be the wrong thing in your eyes. .....Steve SmallCanberra, Australiahttp://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

Read my post above Steve. You know it, I know it, and yes, it really is sad.George Stoddard

Post 34 refers. We didn't want to go here, George, but we were not willing to let you continue to lie with impunity. I don't often make strong statements in public, but this is one of those ocasions. This ongoing misrepresentation of facts crusade by you and a few others has been going on for months, and in your case it was time to balance the view.I am genuinely sorry you were so disagreeable all that long time ago that finally led us to severing our association with you, that severance which by your own admission was initiated by us.At some point in time we all have to move on, and we hope you can too.As I said to you some long time ago, good luck for the future......Steve SmallCanberra, Australiahttp://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

racartron wrote:"What makes this so hilarious are those customers who are so irate about a ir products again. Even though they profess to absolutely love them. Now what is wrong with this picture?"You confuse a couple of very important factors in all this.It is indeed possible to have great respect for the talents and efforts of the folks at FSD, and still choose not to buy their products. The two perceptions can be mutually exclusive.The fact that FSD is a group of extremely creative and hard working sim developers is one I'll readily tell anyone, anytime. But that doesn't neccessarily mean that I have to agree with their anti-piracy methods. I'll readily defend to my last breath their rights to protect their intellectual property, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with how they protect those rights. And I can still be happy for FSD this weekend when/if they sell alot of Porters, yet still choose not to be one of the buyers.For me the decision to not buy this weekend is based solely upon the logical and dispassionate choice of placing a higher value on my time than I do in owning the product. I believe that in the future I could have problems reinstalling the product on my upgraded computer, and because I place a higher value on my time than I do purchasing a $10-$30 sim addon I'll be keeping my credit card in my pocket. Simple as that. No anger, no yearning to buy, no malice toward FSD. Just an uncomplicated business decision.You call it "cutting off my nose to spite my face". I call it simple consumer choices. So while you're flying and enjoying your new Porter this weekend, I'll be flying my latest joy... and we'll both be happy.And both our noses will still be firmly placed where they should be on our faces.

HI Steve I hope you are confusing me with George. I haven`t asked or received a refund for any FSD Products. I have also not been abusive. Curt in some of my emails yes, but abusive definitely not.I was neither abusive or requested a refund. However, I have tried reinstalling the Cheyenne. If you have refunded me the money then you could have had the courtesy to tell me. For what its worth, enclosed is a copy of the email discussion between myself and FSD. This is an email from me containing a number of replies from FSD. This email remains unanswered. I am aware of the privacy aspect of publishing an email thread, however, I have been accused of being abusive and of having been given a refund, neither of which is true. I have removed personal data (reg codes / addresses). As you so coolly put it, Server Logs don`t lie.< Edited by Moderator due to having private content >I don`t see any abusiveness in there, nor do I see any evidence of a refund, the only thing I got was "One further unlock"FSD have their lovestruck supporters who believe they can do no wrong so I`ll probably be abused some more for detailing this issue. However, this email represents my last contact with FSD and I have had no sign of a refund.CheersA most displeased Rottenlungs.

And thisQuote:But to be fair to George, he isn't alone in this (even in this thread), he's just one. For example, in Lungs case, I thought his lodging a Replacement File Request with us months after we refunded his purchase, was being a bit cheeky. That was for a file he had certified uninstalled, deleted - and had refunded. is a f***ing lie!Its as simple as that.Can you send me the emails and evidence from when you confirmed the refund.

This thread has become very interesting as well as sad.I take no sides in the very public brawling which has broken out between the developer and a couple of their customers because I do not know the details.But one thing I do know and it is this. I do not want to deal with a business that engages publicly in this way even if they consider that they need to defend themselves.David

And people wonder why PSS have a locked forum? As FSD have their own forum can the moderators not see that this discussion benefits no-one, not even those in the community forced to watch this bickering?Take it outside. Just remember, you have to log on to use computers, you have to log in to use forums, and with all the hot air spouted by the major protagonists the amount of effort that's gone into tellling everybody why they won't be purchasing something that requires them to log on seriously exceeds the amount of effort that would of been required to purchase, install and re-install several times over.Sad, very sad.