Exactly how am I supposed to enter the holding pattern in the IFR checkride in FS2004?I'm told that I failed since I did not enter the holding pattern correctly. But I think I did. According to instructions I intercept the 140 radial and cross SEA VOR. Immediately after crossing the VOR I make a standard rate turn to right to 320. After doing this I was told I failed. Why?

A radial is defined as MAGNETIC OUTBOUND. If you are going to hold on the 140 radial, your INBOUND heading to the VOR is 320. Therefore, the holding pattern would be in the SE quadrant at the SEA VORTAC. The way you are flying it, you are holding in the NW quadrant. IOW, you are flying it backwards.Suggest you do some studying on instrument flying especially holding patterns. Check out stoenworks.com (don't have the full url) and follow links to the flying page--down at the bottom are a bunch of tutorials that should help a lot. HTH,Paul

Hi.Do a search here for "avcomware" and or "ifr" for details that I posted on this issue about 2 weeks ago. TV

I'm not sure if I understand. After passing PARKS I'm told to turn left to heading 160 and climb to 3000. I do this set the OBS to the course 140. The OBS tells me I'm flying towards the VOR. I'm approaching the VOR from north then intercept the set VOR radial of 140 and pass it from north. After passing the instrument says I'm flying from the VOR station. I checked this in the flight analysis. Then I make a standard rate turn to 320. I have the VOR in the right lower corner of the racetrack. See for example the SEATTLE, WASH chart with a racetrack around PARKK and 159 inbound from north. Exactly what should I do instead?

What are the exact Instructions? If you were told to hold on the 140 Radial from the SEA VOR, then the VOR should be on the Top Left Corner of the racetrack (Standard Hold Pattern is Right turns).So, if you are holding such that the VOR is on the Bottom Right of the Racetrack, you are not on the safe side of the hold, hence you fail.There was a thread yesterday explaining holds, see if you can find that... it had some good instructions.Hope this helps.Mihir

Actually the instruction says to intercept 140 degrees course inbound and not to hold on the 140 radial. If so then the VOR must be in the lower right corner of the racetrack. If not why? Well if so I should make a standard rate turn to 320 but when I did I failed.

I found it and did as you wrote. First after passing the VOR I make a left turn to heading 100 and a minute after passing the VOR I make a turn to heading 320. Still I failed. And also must this not also mean that the inbound course in the holding pattern is 320? Wellthe instructions says the 140 should be the inbound course in the holding pattern.

Hi.You need to hold on 140 RADIAL that means 320 inbound. The Holding that I outlined works everytime. Just make sure you do it the way I wrote it, set OBS TO 160, AFTER PARKK, Track 160, at TO-FROM, Turn OBS to 320, START left turn to 100, at 2.2 DME turn right, about 30 deg. bank, to intercept 320,and then turn right to 140 at TO-FROM, at about 2.8 turn to 320 inbound and you are done. The Proc. Turn is somewhat of a black art to them, but take one thing at the time. TV

Well I will try this again, but if this is the way to do it thethe instructions are flawed they say the inbound course is 140(not to hold on the 140 radial). In your instructions it's the 320 that is the inbound course.BTW what is the problem with the procedure turn? I does not seem todifficult and it's clear exactly what to do.

Hi.In the display the instruction is to .."hold on 140 Radial", right after you turn to 160. This means that you are holding SE, and the Inbound will be 320. VORs have Radials, "arrows" going away from source, so to speak. I think this is somewhat confusing, even for real world Pilots at times, give them an NDB hold and you can see some real fun stuff going on, which is the opposite, since the courses / bearings are inbound.The Instructions and outline of this Check ride is very misleading and unrealistic.The Proc. Turn is a very simple maneuver, in real world flying, as a matter of fact you can choose to do any type of 360 you want, as long as you stay in the safe area. There is a recommended pattern by the FAA, but unless there is a Mandatory Proc., and there are some of those, you can do a 90/270, 80/260 etc.In this check ride you have to start at a specific distance, turn to a specific heading, and maintain that heading with 2 deg., do not exceed 1 min leg all have to be to their exact liking or you will fail. That can be very disappointing, specially at that stage of the ride, some 35 min into it. Keep at it and I am sure you will get, but not twice in a row, unless you are very lucky. Good luck. TV

Hi TV,Currently doing the IR.Can you compare a real check-ride with the ride in FS2004? The sim version sounds much too hard? Also, how many of the real ride procedures are included (eg. 50%, 75%, etc.)?Thanks,Bruce.

>specially at that stage of the ride, some 35 min into it. Keep>at it and I am sure you will get, but not twice in a row,>unless you are very lucky. Good luck. TV >Maybe I will get into it but I'm starting to lose my temper.I always make some mistake. The plane is very sensitive.What about the commercial school? Maybe I can start it andleave IFR checkride?BTW is it possible to save my flight in the checkride and then later resume it? In FS2002 I could save but not resume the checkride.My performence was not evaluated after loading the saved flight.

Hi.With reference to the complete Instrument ticket this check ride covers about 1% of what you need to know, or maybe less.If your question is about this particular approaches, it covers about 50% of what may be involved in a Precision and Non precision approaches. If this had the Preparation before the flight, WX, Take down the Clearance, even if changes during flight which often does, it would be more realistic and informative. That said this is a good tool to get some idea of what is involved for these two types of approaches. The one thing the I like about it is the required accuracy, in most cases anyway. If you get used to maintaining good control of the aircraft you will have less difficult time, in the overall process. At first this may seem like this is more work, but it turns out that when you get real busy, and many times that is the case in a single pilot environment, you have more time to attend to other tasks. If you are off in Altitude, Heading, Tracking and now you get an amended Clearance, a Standard Arrival, get handed off etc., the last thing you want to do is correct for being 2 miles off course or 200 ft. off Altitude.The problem is that the person that wrote this code seems to be approaching it from a Game / challenge stand point, rather then being realistic and informative. Some specifics, are the Hold entry, and the Procedure turn. While the Hold is professed to be a complicated procedure, in reality is fairly simple because 99.9% of the time you are already on an airway or a position where is easy to enter, you don

Hi.>Maybe I will get into it but I'm starting to lose my temper.>I always make some mistake.I understand your frustration, but it is doable. It would be less frustating if it were more realistic.> The plane is very sensitive.I am not sure if you have the original .air file and your controls setup correctly, otherwise the 172 should be fairly stable. All you really have to do is reduce power to about 1900 for descents, then back to 22-2400 level and full power for climbs 500 FPM, you should not have to do much manipulating of the trim. See my instructions in my previous / old post, it basically describes how to handle the aircraft. As a side note this was a pleasant surprise, not having to trim again for the same airspeed, which is basically true in real life. Most good pilots know that, but there are many now days that use the AP that chase that trim all day long.The problem is that you have to be very patient because it takes a while to stabilize in FS9. In 2k2 with some of the .air files from Ron or Rob you could get a much better response, but it had other draw backs.>What about the commercial school? Maybe I can start it and>leave IFR checkride?It is also challenging and it takes another things to get used to. It sound like you a very close, if you get past the Hold you have a good chance to complete it.>BTW is it possible to save my flight in the checkride and then>later resume it? In FS2002 I could save but not resume the>checkride.>My performence was not evaluated after loading the saved>flight.I cannot give you a positive answer to that question. I never tried it but I suspect that cannot be done with the FS9 standard Save. I

Hi TV,Thanks for the great perspective.I also have IP Trainer here on my PC, which I'm progressively using to work through the exercises that supposedly emulate the practical training I will be receiving. Just the first lesson- holding 5 degrees up pitch, level pitch, 5 degrees down, level, etc. (which requires thrust coordination) is much more difficult in IP Trainer than the real 172SP that I fly. And in FS it's not so much more difficult or easy, but different and almost disconnected to the real thing- just my opinion, of course. One of the inherent issues with FS is that I could have my yoke and rudders set different to you, so we would both find it very different. IP Trainer has a pre-set calibration routine that appears to "standardize" control, and of course in the real thing it's diferent again.Thanks again,Bruce.