You know, I don't see how it is helpful that every time someone starts a thread on ATI video cards, a certain group of Nvidia users hijack the thread with claims of superiority for their cards. There are many reasons a person may choose to use an ATI card, some related to FS and some that have nothing to do with FS. It is well known that ATI cards have often had trouble with clouds in Flight Simulator. There is now an excellent fix for this problem in the form of Bojote's Shader mod. With the shader mod applied, the ATI cloud problem simply goes away. Is it unreasonable to expect that we can help ATI users without blasting them for their choice of cards, and trying to sell them Nvidia's latest model?

Claims of superiority...? Uhh you do realize ATI is mass market stuff and intended to be a chip for integrated solutions, not your desktop graphics card.... the fact they sell any is a testemant to brand marketting not superiority...

Claims of superiority...? Uhh you do realize ATI is mass market stuff and intended to be a chip for integrated solutions, not your desktop graphics card.... the fact they sell any is a testemant to brand marketting not superiority...

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Thanks for providing such a wonderful illustration.

Really it's so hard for you to understand that the existing two monopolies have segmented their markets as not to directly compete against one another? When have you heard of two monopolies doing otherwise? There is a reason we have antitrust laws.

Really it's so hard for you to understand that the existing two monopolies have segmented their markets as not to directly compete against one another? When have you heard of two monopolies doing otherwise? There is a reason we have antitrust laws.

Yeah, it just wouldn't be a forum without a hardware jihad that's long on opinion and short on facts. Are you watching for the black helicopters, too?

Well don't worry... I don't think AMD is going to stop making subpar cards and charging too much for them any time soon.

Well don't worry... I don't think AMD is going to stop making subpar cards and charging too much for them any time soon.

Wow, everyone's entitled to their opinions but these are just crazy statements! AMD/ATI make some of the best graphics cards for gaming right now. The new 6870 for example is faster than a GTX 470, costs less, makes FAR less heat/uses FAR less power, and takes up less room to boot. Plus it has even better DirectX 11 performance than the 58xx series cards.Anyway, back to my original intent with this thread... I have a GTX 470 coming in the mail on Tuesday. In benchmarks it's neck and neck with the 5850 I have now, so this will be a good test to confirm just how the two perform in FSX in thick clouds and such. I will let you all know what happens! :)

Ahh actually the 6870 is slower in FS than even the 460... and there is a 9 watt difference there , plus the Nvidia is actually quieter.... but why should facts and manufacturer specifications get in the way?

ATI cards are wonderful. They're stable, fast and they look great. I've used both ATI and Nvidia for FS and I prefer ATI. Among other things, ATI has terrific color modeling. While it is quite subjective, I prefer the look of the ATI cards to what Nvidia produces. Especially if you use your computer for things other than FS, like dealing with digital photographs and such, ATI is the better choice. Within FS, I'm getting the performance I want from the card, an ATI 4870 HD 1G. FSX performance is affected primarily by CPU speed and power and a couple Mhz speed one way or the other on the video card has very little effect on the performance of the simulator, if any.

Ahh actually the 6870 is slower in FS than even the 460... and there is a 9 watt difference there , plus the Nvidia is actually quieter.... but why should facts and manufacturer specifications get in the way?

Facts? Do you actually have any facts yourself to back up the claim about the 6870 being faster than a GTX 460 in FSX?

ATI cards are wonderful. They're stable, fast and they look great. I've used both ATI and Nvidia for FS and I prefer ATI. Among other things, ATI has terrific color modeling. While it is quite subjective, I prefer the look of the ATI cards to what Nvidia produces. Especially if you use your computer for things other than FS, like dealing with digital photographs and such, ATI is the better choice. Within FS, I'm getting the performance I want from the card, an ATI 4870 HD 1G. FSX performance is affected primarily by CPU speed and power and a couple Mhz speed one way or the other on the video card has very little effect on the performance of the simulator, if any.

First off no "a really excited user" here but: ATI is no longer ATI, It is Radeon (new cards have no ATI logo) ATI/Radeon makes VERY good video cards, the main problem is thier driver support (lack of) and the fact that they won’t support FSX in any way - they have stated this.As a matter of fact the ATI cards render Anisotropic filtering better than Present NV cards as far as the quality, because ATI uses full angle independent Anistropic filtering where as NV does not (there is a trade off), this is important in such program like FS since you can approach the terrain at all angles and so the filtering will be constant where as it is not on NV cards, not that it is that noticable untill you have them side by side.However as others have pointed out all in all an NV card supports FSX better, but it is mainly due to the driver support rather than any supposed "Superiority".2nd "color modeling" is a non issue, Both ATI and NV adhere to the same technical standards, and 2nd Wrong, The choice for the high-end graphic artist and 3D modeling around the globe have been mainly NV card equiped workstations. New MAC Pros come with Radeon, there both good and one is better when the application-budget-purpose fits.Looking forward to unpacking and installing a 580 on Tuesday/Wednesday :) Cheers!

...and 2nd Wrong, The choice for the high-end graphic artist and 3D modeling around the globe have been mainly NV card equiped workstations. New MAC Pros come with Radeon, there both good and one is better when the application-budget-purpose fits.... :) Cheers!

Macs have been using ATI video for ages. I've worked in graphic art and pre-press for 20 years. ATI is the choice. Unless you have some kind of facts to back up that kind of statement, don't make them.

Macs have been using ATI video for ages. I've worked in graphic art and pre-press for 20 years. ATI is the choice. Unless you have some kind of facts to back up that kind of statement, don't make them.

Pre-press huh? 20 years? Maybe you are working in a poor third world country or your work experience has been limited in a certain area?NV has been the professional graphics market leader for a Long time, they own the market, its not even close, and there is a reason for that, NV have focused attention to the market and ATI/AMD simply did not, and it shows as thier cards do not even really compete and lack of driver support has always been a big part of the factor.You seem to have an axe to grind or something and I would love to dance but I don’t think you’re my type so I will just leave with how things actually stack up:Facts:In 201087% market shareor here2003http://www.highbeam....-131661610.htmlHere is why, read the benchmarks, read the conclusions:Quadro VS FireProAnything else?Enjoy that Radeon

Well, you have some great press releases there, and some really snotty comments. I'm glad you don't want to dance because I would probably throw up on your dress. The facts remain that Macs have been running ATI graphics for longer than you've been on the planet, and a lot of great art and photos have been done on them. For Flight Simulator, they run beautifully and don't crash near as much as the Nvidia cards do. Have a nice day, and I just want to thank you for providing the perfect illustration of what I have been talking about.

I would probably throw up

Maybe if you stoped posting so much tripe and eating so much crow you wouldn't feel so bad.For one thing this forum is full of people who simply like to get the best performance out FSX as they can and like myself have no elegance to any brand of hardware, we just know what works better. If ATI driver support was there for FSX I would still have one or two in a system.I posted unbiased comments on the pros and the cons as did others here, that you cant get beyond that seems to be a personal problem of your own. Maybe you should consider not being so closed minded.So what is inside some of those MacPros?CreativePro - Apple unveils new MacPro 2006"Every Mac Pro comes standard with the NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT with 256MB of video memory, providing built-in support for dual-displays and Apple's 30-inch Cinema HD Display. The ATI Radeon X1900 XT and the NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500, both with 512MB of video memory, are available as build to order options and provide built-in support" Nvidia Quadro FX 4800 for MacPro Users 2009Oh, and by the way things are going here for you I think we know who would be wearing that dress! :Love: Anything else?

Are we still talking about clouds?