...land RW32?I flew in FS2004 from ADL (Adelaide) to KGC (Kingscote, Kangaroo Island)last night and got landing clearance at KGC for GPS RW19 circle to land RW32 (or RW33, I can't remember). Since the conditiones were visual and I was approaching the airport from the north I requested a visual apporach to RW19. I then got cleared for a visual approach RW19 circle to land RW32 .So my question is: is there such a procedure in the real world? I understand the purpose of a circle to land procedure if visibility is low and the winds are in favour of a RW which has not got an ILS, a LOC or any other instrument apporach, so that you are guided to the airport first via a RW with an instrument approach and once the airport is in sight, you can circle to land on the runway which is aligned against the wind. But what sense does it make to get a visual clearance to another RW first and then circle to land? Why has ATC not just cleared me for a visual to RW32 or a visual to RW19?Wolfgang

Speaking for the real world, how about Noise abatement procedures not letting you fly a "normal" visual approach to the active runway?Or maybe high terrain prohibiting a "normal" visual approach from that side of the runway?Just guesses :-)Stamatis

Hi Stamatis,thanks for your quick reply! The terrain is more or less flat there, but noise abatement procedures is a good idea! I had not thought about that. On the other hand there is a RW32 visual approach listed in the FS2004 apporach options for KGC. But I guess noise abatement procedures depend on the time of the day and on the weekday. They are probably much stricter in the evening/in the night and on weekends.Regards,Wolfgang

What I have noticed is that FS selects the active runway(s) based on conditions. In 95% of all my approaches, they have always given me the correct runway based on wind.However, as an example, KBOS......Lets say the conditions are perfect for Runway 15, but the 4s are also acceptable. FS chooses Runway 15 as the active runway as you would hear in the ATIS. However, you decide you want to land on the 4s so you ask for approach clearance to ILS Rwy 4R for example. FS will allow you to shoot your ILS approach to Rwy 4R but since the runway in use is 15, it will ask you to "circle to land" Rwy15......so you can shoot the approach to 4R but not actually land there.This is how FS9 operates in my experience with it. I really do not know if this is also echoed in the real world, in my 15+ years of listening to ATC on scanners, I've never heard anyone given an approach clearance to one runway then a circle to land to another. However maybe the real pilots here can chime in.Of course, you can just ignore FS ATC and just do as you please, but watch out for that AI 737 crossing on Rwy 15 when you land on 4R..;-) Hope this helped.

I circle to land clearance is very useful in the real world. At the bottom of each approach plate, you will see two sets of mininums. One for the straight in approach, and one for circling mininums.. Not all airports approaches have them, but most do. For those that do, the circling approach is not authorized at night for example at many, due to rising terrain in the area. At any rate, let's say that you only want to shoot an ILS based on your equipment availability, or maybe that's the only approach they have other than an ADF for example. Or maybe you just have a comfort level with precision approaches, and take them over non-precision (ADF, VOR, GPS) whenever possible. Well, if the wind is too strong a crosswind, or perhaps a tailwind, you can shoot the ILS down to mins, or down to a safe visual altitude above mins, and, as long as you stay within 1.3 miles of the ends of the rwy, which creates a "perimeter" in which you can fly legally, you can then land on a more appropriate rwy based on winds,etc. Thus, you get the precision approach down through the clouds, but once you have the rwy environment, you can then circle to another rwy, as long as you stay inside an imaginary line that extends outward from the rwys about 1.3 miles in all directions. Hope that helps, CB P4 2.81024 DDRAM800 Bus36 gig SATA hardrive80 gig harddriveATI Radeon 9700 ProCH yoke/pedalsElite Multi quadrant- serial19" inch monitor-Soundblaster PCI 512Win XPCommercial ASEL- Instrument 285 hoursAOPALawyerPilots Bar Association"Men without dreams are never free, twas thus this way and thus will ever be."

>wind. But what sense does it make to get a visual>clearance to another RW first and then circle to land?>Why has ATC not just cleared me for a visual to RW32 or a>visual to RW19?>Wolfgang,Visual is another IFR approach - you have to fly it as prescribed on the appropriate plate. So in view of that the "circle" part should no longer be of surprise.People misunderstood sometimes what "visual" approach means. It is not a VFR procedure - at least not in the airlines flying vocabulary.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

A slight nisnomer ...."a visual is another IFR approach"....."cleared for a visual" clearance allows you to continue on your IFR flight plan, without cancelling it, but due to the presence of VFR conditions, you are given more flexibility to fly an approach visually, instead of using horizontal and vertical guidance, just as you were landing normally, without the traffic pattern..THere is no approach plate that tells you how to fly a visual approach. The exceptions to this rule are at PWM, DCA, and PHL, for example, where there are specific visual reference points and altitudes that are given, and you fly the "RW29 Harbour Visual" for example at PWM. While this is an approach it has to be flown in VFR conditions, as the plate dictates in a liitle msg on the horizontal profile section of the plate. (but the weather has to be at least 3000-3sm visibility--which is even higher than VFR mins.) Additionally, if you are in VFR, and you are on a VFR flight plan, you would simply request another rwy, and tower would assign accordingly based on traffic, etc.P4 2.81024 DDRAM800 Bus36 gig SATA hardrive80 gig harddriveATI Radeon 9700 ProCH yoke/pedalsElite Multi quadrant- serial19" inch monitor-Soundblaster PCI 512Win XPCommercial ASEL- Instrument 285 hoursAOPALawyerPilots Bar Association"Men without dreams are never free, twas thus this way and thus will ever be."

Thanks for correcting. You are obviously right. Using "circle to land" phrase would only make sense if this was a "published" IFR approach, otherwise it makes no sense at all - unless controllers occasionally use such 'loose' language. In his case since this was probably a smaller airport with no such 'published' visual approach so we should consider it either a minor bug or another limitation of the ATC in FS9.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

Circle to land is a real procedure. This is used because you maybe flying the approach to one runway, but the active runway may not be the one you are flying the approach to. Even though the winds maybe calm, FS doesn't seem to have the ability to let you land on the non active runway.

I use a circle to land approach all the time at my home airport. They prefer to use 27/9 as it keeps traffic out of Detroit Airspace. My hangar is however at the approach end of 36 which takes a long time to taxi to. Very often-weather/winds permitting, I will shoot the ils to 27 and ask for a circle to land on 36. That way I can get to my hangar without having to taxi for a long time across the airport.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/Geofdog2.jpg

Many thanks to everybody who has replied!That's why I love this forum. Within just a few hours one gets so many competent replies! This is great!Wolfgang :-wave