Since Approach data is referenced from the \scenery\ airport bgl, are you using a stock WSSS or a custom (and if so, which?)?The reason I ask is If there is no ILS approach data in the active airport scenery, then you will not be offered the choice to fly "the full ILS" even though there is an ILS transmitter present.

I am using "ImagineSim - WSSS Singapore"

I am using "ImagineSim - WSSS Singapore"

I thought so - me too :( . So I just made a quick hop in - was given BOBAB1B.20C and when I was handed to Singapore Approach I asked for Full ILS 20C, and was told to "report on procedure." I reported ELBEB and was then told to report 4DME. I prepped the tower freq on standby, reported, and was cleared to land in front of a determined 321.Everything went as expected, so my next area of questioning would be - what aircraft are you using - what navigational instruments - what charts / charting software? I've flown this in defaults and just used the PC-12 with the ISG gauges. And always AivlaSoft EFB....Once I get a handle on what you're using, I think I may start a new topic for this STAR and approach so I can post a few screenshots. Maybe an iFly BBJ next time?Regards,

so my next area of questioning would be - what aircraft are you using - what navigational instruments - what charts / charting software?Regards,

I am assuming you tried the same route that I did: "WMKK DUMOK A464 BATAR A464 OGAKO A464 TOPOR A464 ARAMA WSSS"I use the PMGD 747 (FSX) as the aircraft.I use vroutoe.info Premium to generate a route, once I generate the route I export the routes twice. one for FSX (PLN format) to load with FSX for the VoxATC and the other exportis the .rte file for the PMDG FMS (loading the same route on both FSX and FMC).When I fire the VoxATC and get further instructions like a SID for example, I just configure it in the FMC according to the ATC instructions.so I assume your question on what navigation instrument I use , the answer would be the Flight Computer management.However even though everything is configured in the FMC, I fly the plane by myself (hand flown) following the FMC navigation route and calculation and speed, I never actually engagethe autopilot at any stage including the landing phase, I hand land the craft following the ILS output (challenging, I know, but that is the only way I am feeling I am doing something).I thing the problem is that when I requested a full ILS the "report on procedure", I don't really understand what should I report and when.It doesn't really show on the VoxATC ATC screen what to say and when (e.g. at what FIX/NDB,etc)also in the menu "0" after I was told to report on procedure, I don't really see anything I can do or report.

I am assuming you tried the same route that I did: "WMKK DUMOK A464 BATAR A464 OGAKO A464 TOPOR A464 ARAMA WSSS"I use the PMGD 747 (FSX) as the aircraft.I use vroutoe.info Premium to generate a route, once I generate the route I export the routes twice. one for FSX (PLN format) to load with FSX for the VoxATC and the other exportis the .rte file for the PMDG FMS (loading the same route on both FSX and FMC).When I fire the VoxATC and get further instructions like a SID for example, I just configure it in the FMC according to the ATC instructions.so I assume your question on what navigation instrument I use , the answer would be the Flight Computer management.However even though everything is configured in the FMC, I fly the plane by myself (hand flown) following the FMC navigation route and calculation and speed, I never actually engagethe autopilot at any stage including the landing phase, I hand land the craft following the ILS output (challenging, I know, but that is the only way I am feeling I am doing something).I thing the problem is that when I requested a full ILS the "report on procedure", I don't really understand what should I report and when.It doesn't really show on the VoxATC ATC screen what to say and when (e.g. at what FIX/NDB,etc)also in the menu "0" after I was told to report on procedure, I don't really see anything I can do or report.

Akila, Ok I think we've reached the point where your question has penetrated my thick skull. [g] What you're doing is perfectly fine and commendable. (Although from what I gather airlines do like it if their pilots shoot some autolands every so often... just to have the experience. :) So I expect that when you're given the STAR into WSSS that you also enter the approach procedure that you want into the FMC? (If not, try that next time - you'll need to know the approach fixes.) What VoxATC does when one asks to fly a complete ILS procedure is to report position at the IAF - the Initial Approach Fix. On some procedures, VoxATC asks the pilot to report the fix name. On others, it asks to "report on procedure" like at WSSS. So at WSSS the IAPs are:

• For ILS02C - LELON
• For ILS02L - AKIPO
• For ILS20C - ELBEB
• For ILS20R - IDVAS

You can find these either on approach charts, or by peeking into the navdata.So when approaching your ILS' IAF, you'd either say "[callsign] [specific fixname]" or in this case "[callsign] established on procedure". That's it. Then you'll be told by ATC to report again - either the specific FAF name or a generic "4 DME." After reporting FAF (again either "[callsign] [specific fixname]" or in this case "[callsign] 4 DME"), you're handed over to the Tower (or other control) who will give you clearance or not as depending. Easy as pie.The only problem I have with the way this is done is that VoxATC only uses the procedures and their fixnames from the scenery BGL. While this is good for those who use FSX GPSes, I really wish that the Navigraph procedures and fix names could be used instead - as long as the user chose so. The small problem is that if - like me - someone is using current data, there may be different procedures available, or IAF / FAF names may have changed. (FSX's navdata is getting to be 5 years old already.) So you might be told to "Report ABCDE" but your current navdata might have the reporting point as "VWXYZ" - no "ABCDE" in sight!Please let me know if I'm not clear on anything, or correct any mistakes that I've made.Regards,

Ok, took me a while to reply as I did that flight again to see if I could produce what you just said.Singapore center gave me ILS RW02C approach using BABA1A.02C , ARAMA Transition.I configured my FMS with the data and here is what I got in the LEGS:BOBAG 10000BOKIP 6000SAMKO 4000LELON 2500LASIN 1500RW02Cgreat.. then I was passed to Approach which wanted to vector me to Final even though when I called approach (when passed to approach by Center)I stated "with you on BOBA1A, ARAMA Transition" as was stated on the VoxATC window following the text in green, still wanted to vector me ignoring the Procedure given to me by Center (and my report) and on the VoxATC Caption windowit stated "Victors to ILS...".then I did what you said and requested FULL ILS RW 02C. "report when established on procedure" then I was told by the Approach (like you said).I reported "establish on procedure" pretty much immediately just to see what would happen.the approach told me to report on 4DME (like you said)....everything seemed fine I guess.My question(s) is less to do with VoxATC at this point, but more on interpreting the VoxATC instructions with the FMS data displayed(to know when to report, etc), maybe you could help me out a bit:1) "Report on procedure" how did you determine it is LELON when I need to report on "procedure" to the Approach? (assuming we don't have WSSS charts)when I look at the AIRAC data file for WSSS here is what I see:

STARSSTAR BOBA1A.02C FIX BOBAG AT OR ABOVE 10000 SPEED 250 FIX BOKIP AT OR ABOVE 6000 FIX SAMKO AT OR ABOVE 4000 SPEED 220 TRANSITION ARAMA FIX ARAMA TRANSITION ASUNA FIX ASUNA TRANSITION REKOP FIX REKOP RNW 02C

&

APPROACHESAPPROACH ILS02C FIX LELON 2500 FIX LASIN 1500 RNW 02C TRK 023 UNTIL 422 FIX NYLON 3000 HOLD AT FIX NYLON LEFT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 203 ALT 3000 LEGDIST 6 TRANSITION LEPNA FIX LEPNA AT OR ABOVE 4500 TRANSITION LIDVA FIX LIDVA FIX LEPNA AT OR ABOVE 4500

BTW.. I don't see any ARAMA transition under the "APPRAOCES" in the AIRAC file (only "LEPNA/LIDVA") for WSSS even though it is possible to config via the FMS(I assume that both LEPNA & LIDVA are meant for Go-Around, correct me if I am wrong).2) "report on 4DME"how do I know where is the 4DME based on the FMS Data?

BOBAG 10000BOKIP 6000SAMKO 4000LELON 2500LASIN 1500RW02C

I can only assume it is LASIN as it is the next FIX after LELON, but is it safe to assume this on every approach that the next FIX on the FMSafter the "established on the Procedure point" which I reported is the one VoxATC wanted me to report again (assuming there is name mismatch between FMS and VoxATC instructions) ?3) a general question regarding VoxATC, to clear a bit what you posted on your replywhen VoxATC gives me instructions like start descending... reduce speed, report established on procedure, report 4DME, etchow does VoxATC bases and decides it's instructions to be given to me (not what names it gives it, but how it actually decides on what to instruct me)?based on the FSX BGL or the AIRAC I installed for VoxATC (LEVEL-D)?Could you maybe elaborate on this a bit?4) do you know if there is a tool or a website somewhere out there that can Sync the AIRAC data (whatever AIRAC data format , PMDG,iFLY,LEVEL-D, don't really mind)with FSX scenery BGL file that would macing with each other and/or up to date as possible ,available out there?or in exchange do you know if there is somewhere to D/L an Updated BGL file?Do you by any chance also know what BGL files are responsible for those in the FSX folder?

Ok, took me a while to reply as I did that flight again to see if I could produce what you just said.Singapore center gave me ILS RW02C approach using BABA1A.02C , ARAMA Transition.I configured my FMS with the data and here is what I got in the LEGS:BOBAG 10000BOKIP 6000SAMKO 4000LELON 2500LASIN 1500RW02Cgreat.. then I was passed to Approach which wanted to vector me to Final even though when I called approach (when passed to approach by Center)I stated "with you on BOBA1A, ARAMA Transition" as was stated on the VoxATC window following the text in green, still wanted to vector me ignoring the Procedure given to me by Center (and my report) and on the VoxATC Caption windowit stated "Victors to ILS...".then I did what you said and requested FULL ILS RW 02C. "report when established on procedure" then I was told by the Approach (like you said).I reported "establish on procedure" pretty much immediately just to see what would happen.the approach told me to report on 4DME (like you said)....everything seemed fine I guess.

Thiis is as expected. If you want to fly the ILS without vectors, then when you are handed to Approach you should ignore the green text and not report "with you on [whatever]." You should immediately request the full ILS procedure..

My question(s) is less to do with VoxATC at this point, but more on interpreting the VoxATC instructions with the FMS data displayed(to know when to report, etc), maybe you could help me out a bit:1) "Report on procedure" how did you determine it is LELON when I need to report on "procedure" to the Approach?(assuming we don't have WSSS charts)when I look at the AIRAC data file for WSSS here is what I see:

STARSSTAR BOBA1A.02C FIX BOBAG AT OR ABOVE 10000 SPEED 250 FIX BOKIP AT OR ABOVE 6000 FIX SAMKO AT OR ABOVE 4000 SPEED 220TRANSITION ARAMA FIX ARAMATRANSITION ASUNA FIX ASUNATRANSITION REKOP FIX REKOPRNW 02C

&

APPROACHESAPPROACH ILS02C FIX LELON 2500 FIX LASIN 1500 RNW 02C TRK 023 UNTIL 422 FIX NYLON 3000 HOLD AT FIX NYLON LEFT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 203 ALT 3000 LEGDIST 6TRANSITION LEPNA FIX LEPNA AT OR ABOVE 4500TRANSITION LIDVA FIX LIDVA FIX LEPNA AT OR ABOVE 4500

First, I will chide you for flying without charts. I never fly without my EFB to tell me where I am and what I should expect ahead of me. But then again, we can always pause our flights and look for data when it's necessary. Next, "Report on procedure" is the signal to "tell ATC when you have started your approach procedure" - that's the Initial Approach Fix, or in plainspeak, the first fix on the approach line. In this case it's LELON:APPROACHESAPPROACH ILS02C FIX LELON 2500 FIX LASIN 1500 RNW 02C TRK 023 UNTIL 422 FIX NYLON 3000 HOLD AT FIX NYLON LEFT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 203 ALT 3000 LEGDIST 6

BTW.. I don't see any ARAMA transition under the "APPRAOCES" in the AIRAC file (only "LEPNA/LIDVA") for WSSS even though it is possible to config via the FMS(I assume that both LEPNA & LIDVA are meant for Go-Around, correct me if I am wrong).

ARAMA is a STAR transition. It's a "feeder" that takes you to BOBAG. LEPNA & LIDVA are Approach transitions. They are "feeders" that take you to the Initial Approach Fix of LELON.

2) "report on 4DME"how do I know where is the 4DME based on the FMS Data?

BOBAG 10000BOKIP 6000SAMKO 4000LELON 2500LASIN 1500RW02C

I can only assume it is LASIN as it is the next FIX after LELON, but is it safe to assume this on every approach that the next FIX on the FMSafter the "established on the Procedure point" which I reported is the one VoxATC wanted me to report again (assuming there is name mismatch between FMS and VoxATC instructions) ?

4DME means "4 miles from the runway's touchdown zone." And that's primarily a different way to say "report when you are at the Final Approach Fix" without calling it by name. (See the end of my post for my speculation as to why "Report on procedure" and "4DME" is used in some cases.) So you are correct in that you should report at LASIN here. You would be generally correct in that it's the "next fix" but you'd be safer in assuming its the "last fix before the runway, despite its distance from the runway"

3) a general question regarding VoxATC, to clear a bit what you posted on your replywhen VoxATC gives me instructions like start descending... reduce speed, report established on procedure, report 4DME, etchow does VoxATC bases and decides it's instructions to be given to me (not what names it gives it, but how it actually decides on what to instruct me)?based on the FSX BGL or the AIRAC I installed for VoxATC (LEVEL-D)?Could you maybe elaborate on this a bit?

I do not know what criteria VoxATC uses to decide when to call for descent. Usually though it's to help you reach certain STAR or Approach altitude constraints. I've never busted an altitude restriction with VoxATC, so I think the coding calls for an agressive descent profile. Speed restrictions though are noted in the navigation data. For example if you find yourself on that STAR again, you'll see that you'll be slowed to 220 to reach SAMKO. STAR BOBA1A.02C FIX BOBAG AT OR ABOVE 10000 SPEED 250 FIX BOKIP AT OR ABOVE 6000 FIX SAMKO AT OR ABOVE 4000 SPEED 220

4) do you know if there is a tool or a website somewhere out there that can Sync the AIRAC data (whatever AIRAC data format , PMDG,iFLY,LEVEL-D, don't really mind)with FSX scenery BGL file that would macing with each other and/or up to date as possible ,available out there?or in exchange do you know if there is somewhere to D/L an Updated BGL file?Do you by any chance also know what BGL files are responsible for those in the FSX folder?

Ah. I'm sorry but I do not know of such a tool or service. A year or so ago I had proposed to Navigraph that I work on such a tool that would write new approach procedures based upon their data, but that was then and I am too busy now. Besides Navigraph only uses the "Direct To" types of approach legs, which is why DME Arcs are generally... really odd looking. :( As for which files, it's usually the BGL that contains the airport data... although it's possible for aproach data to exist in a separate BGL file. In the case of ImagineSIm WSSS, the file you would look for is in the \scenery\ folder and named WSSS_ADEX_ADE.BGLIf you open that file, you should see the approach fixes have IDs such as "CF20L". It is my assumption that in cases such as this VoxATC uses the "report on procedure" and "4DME" variant rather than "report [fix name]" And [AHEM] this is another reason I'd prefer VoxATC could use Navigraph approach data if the user so chose.

1st of all Thanks a million for your very detailed and sure helpful reply(s) and your patience, I sure learned a lot from you on VoxATC and flying.

ARAMA is a STAR transition. It's a "feeder" that takes you to BOBAG. LEPNA & LIDVA are Approach transitions. They are "feeders" that take you to the Initial Approach Fix of LELON.

Does VoxATC ever supply/instructs both STAR transition & Approach Transition? (I have yet seen such case)

Speed restrictions though are noted in the navigation data. For example if you find yourself on that STAR again, you'll see that you'll be slowed to 220 to reach SAMKO. STAR BOBA1A.02C FIX BOBAG AT OR ABOVE 10000 SPEED 250 FIX BOKIP AT OR ABOVE 6000 FIX SAMKO AT OR ABOVE 4000 SPEED 220

Yes, I had seen that speed restrictions are in the STAR, the reason I asked is that I never encounter VoxATC telling me to reduce speed other then always 180 Knots,which is not in the STAR and usually it tell me to reduce speed ages before I get to a position when I start deploying flaps (in the last case I was told to reduce speed to 180 Knots at BOBAG).so I was wondering if VoxATC actually looks at the AIRAC CYCLE or any other speed reference for speed instructions? or it's just a "robotic 180k whenever it feels like it"?

Does VoxATC ever supply/instructs both STAR transition & Approach Transition? (I have yet seen such case)

Hmmm, I don't think I've ever heard Vox call for (or recognize) an Approach transition. (STAR transitions I get all the time.)

Yes, I had seen that speed restrictions are in the STAR, the reason I asked is that I never encounter VoxATC telling me to reduce speed other then always 180 Knots,which is not in the STAR and usually it tell me to reduce speed ages before I get to a position when I start deploying flaps (in the last case I was told to reduce speed to 180 Knots at BOBAG).so I was wondering if VoxATC actually looks at the AIRAC CYCLE or any other speed reference for speed instructions? or it's just a "robotic 180k whenever it feels like it"?

Good question. Off the top of my head I didn't know the answer, but I looked through my new three week old log file and all I see are references to "reduce speed to one eight zero"That isn't to say those aren't proper calls and taken from the navdata... but that's all I know of. I will keep an eye out for this though.It might be possible that depending on other incoming traffic, that Vox may simply have wanted you to slow down to ensure separation. Again, I don't know but controllers (I'm thinking about real ones) have their mysterious ways. :( Regards,