Hi,how can I display the distances between all waypoints (like in the PMDG 737), not only the distance to the next waypoint ?How do I insert a waypoint e.g. 10 NM before waypoint Z ?(Like in the PMDG 737: FFF/#DD)Thanx.

You can't.

Ok, thank you for the answer.How do you react - when you're flying the J41 - ATCs order: "xyz, descend FL100 to be levelled 10 NM before X" ?

I answer "Can not comply".I have never heard of such an ATC order, I am not even sure if it is legal as "10NM before X" is NOT a fixed point in space, which makes it a meaningless instruction. However, if they were to give me a restriction for a waypoint not in my current FMC database, I could a) ask for nearby waypoints which I might have, :( ask to be rerouted or c) fly the plane the old fashioned way and look at my charts.I should also point out, in case you weren't already aware, that the FCS has no VNAV control. Vertical navigation is completly at the pilots descretion. You can indicate your intentions and the FMC will make suggestions on how to acheive them, but you still have to fly the plane.

Thank you.To make my question simpler and/or more precise, I'm thinking about this scenario: ATC "xyz, descend FL100 to be levelled at X"Between my actual position and waypoint X are several waypoints in hte flight plan.Now I have to calculate the right moment to begin the descent (I'm aware that the JS41 has no VNAV control, so I have to do this job).

fly the plane the old fashioned way and look at my charts

That's the way I'll do it, thanks again.

I answer "Can not comply".I have never heard of such an ATC order, I am not even sure if it is legal as "10NM before X" is NOT a fixed point in space, which makes it a meaningless instruction. However, if they were to give me a restriction for a waypoint not in my current FMC database, I could a) ask for nearby waypoints which I might have, :( ask to be rerouted or c) fly the plane the old fashioned way and look at my charts.[...]

To be honest, I would definitely not answer with unable (because such a command is not unreasonable), but if you know for a fact that you cannot comply, then you should reply as such so that the controller knows you will not do it.As far as the validity, it is a valid request. It's the same as asking you to "Cross FALKO at 10,000 and 250 knots," but a distance from the field or from some other fix would also suffice. That point is precisely a fixed point in space, because you can easily calculate where 10NM before FALKO is by taking your distance from FALKO and subtracting 10. Ideally, ATC will make it easy on you by using a fix on your flight plan, but occasionally they will say something to the effect of "descend pilot's discretion to 10,000 by 25nm from the field." Again, ideally, they'd be smart about it and give you a way of figuring out your distance from the field. Most pilots are smart and would think to themselves "oh hey, there's a VOR on the field, so I can use that for distance info," but some wouldn't bother and would say "unable," because they don't want to think much further than FMC capabilities. If ATC isn't specific enough for you, ask them to clarify, but also keep in mind that restrictions are less specific (25NM from the field) are likely less precise and more just helpful for them. ATC will get upset if you do something other than what is expected of you and it causes a safety issue, but they are not the police of the sky. Not hitting exactly 250 at the 10,000 transition (in the States) is not going to get you in trouble with ATC unless you're way over 250 or your lack of control over the aircraft put you too close to another. We can only see your groundspeed anyway, so if there's a tailwind, who knows whether you hit 250 exactly or not. To be honest, I'm probably not even looking specifically at the ground speed of your target until you're getting nearer to the airport and I have to give you another command anyway. Same thing goes for crossing restrictions. Most are there because you're supposed to be lower around the field, others are there because of another nearby airport that has an arrival route that crosses yours. If you hit FALKO at 11,000 I probably won't notice or mind too much. The difference of 1000' can easily be made up with a wider vector if it even becomes necessary.Before the days of FMCs pilots had to do the mental math all the time, and sadly, must of the sentiment (at least on the simulated side of things) is "well if my plane can't do it for me, then I won't/can't do it." You all should see the stuff you have to run in your head on the AT-SAT (air traffic controller aptitude test - no calculator, no paper). It's timed, so you better be on your math game - quickly but accurately.I will point out, however, that even if you don't want to do the mental math, bringing something back to the table (as Paul mentioned by giving the a, b, and c above) will get you much better results. The ATC rulebook provides controllers with requirements and recommendations, along with a charge for the safe/expeditious movement of traffic on a first-come, first-served basis. Keep in mind that this charge is subject to a controller's ability and judgment. If everyone else is able to meet the restriction the controller imposed (assuming they got that same/similar restriction), the controller may vector you off of your route so as not to impede or potentially conflict with other traffic. In doing so, you're not technically placed at a disadvantage, but you're no longer in the arrival stream, which means you'll be worked back in as they find a spot closer to the airport (again, keeping in mind they won't intentionally delay you because of your choice not to follow that direction). So while they're not going to hold a grudge against you for it, there is a certain amount of delay that could be picked up because they're trying to keep the non-conforming aircraft away from the aircraft that can conform.

ATC "xyz, descend FL100 to be levelled at X"Between my actual position and waypoint X are several waypoints in hte flight plan.Now I have to calculate the right moment to begin the descent (I'm aware that the JS41 has no VNAV control, so I have to do this job).

Just as a reference, many controllers will give descent commands assuming approximately the following:[Current altitude (in FL format) - Crossing altitude (in FL)] X 4 = distance in NMAs an example, if you're at FL350 and the command is "Cross FALKO at 10,000, 250 knots," I plan on giving that command just before 100NM.[350 - 100] * 4 = 100A couple things are accomplished by this:-One, I will often say "descend pilot's discretion to cross FALKO at 10,000, 250 knots," meaning, you can follow the FMC and descend at the calculated T/D, or you can descend now. This allows you to choose when, as long as you can be at FALKO at 10/250.-Two, by providing the clearance a little earlier than necessary, I push that requirement off on you, because I don't know how to fly every aircraft, so I don't know how quickly it will descend (for FMC-equipped aircraft, some use policy descents of 290/280/etc, some use ECON, meaning the same type will descend at different rates). On the other hand, I also waited until just before it is necessary to avoid clearing you down before I know your path of descent is clear.Obviously, you'll want to be more precise in your own calculation, but if you have an idea of when we'll tell you, you'll have a better chance of planning more effectively before that point. That way when, you can do the math at your own pace before we tell you to descend, instead of starting down early and burning more fuel because you panicked and couldn't run the mental math that quickly.

^ Pretty much exactly what I was going to say (and then some). You can't tell ATC unable to comply with something just because you don't have a VNAV button in the J41 guys... these planes were (and still are) flown this way for a long time without the use of "the magic" to perform descents and stuff like that. You should be able to do the math.Kyle - just curious, what is the actual normal rate of descent you guys assume that an airliner class aircraft is going to have when you give your descent clearances in the real world?

Thank you all for the detailed answers.I'm quite experienced in online-flying the PMDG 737, but the J41 is in some scenarious still a misterious partner in the online business...

In the JS41, if the waypoint is already on your flight plan, you can set a crossing restriction and the VNAV page will then give you the information you need. You can add a waypoint to your flight plan, but only if it exists in your database. I do not know if the FMC for the real world JS41 allows PBD waypoints to be created, but, as you have found, the one in this sim doesn't. All of this Descent planning is covered in the tutorial from about page 83.

^ Pretty much exactly what I was going to say (and then some). You can't tell ATC unable to comply with something just because you don't have a VNAV button in the J41 guys... these planes were (and still are) flown this way for a long time without the use of "the magic" to perform descents and stuff like that. You should be able to do the math.Kyle - just curious, what is the actual normal rate of descent you guys assume that an airliner class aircraft is going to have when you give your descent clearances in the real world?

I can be somewhat verbose sometimes, can't I?And I must apologize, I did blur the line between real world and simulated in terms of myself there. To clarify some, while I'm still in the process of becoming a controller, I haven't even hit training in OKC yet. Most of my knowledge (and references above) comes from visits to the local facilities (Potomac TRACON and ZDC, thus the reference to FALKO), keeping up with the controllers/RPOs there, and a good amount of VATSIM (on the controller side). I figure, if and when I get to OKC, it'll only help me get through the process if I have a lot of the knowledge already.That aside, there is a screen on the side of the scope that allows you to pull up information on just about anything. The one at the TRACON here has all of the procedures for the relevant airports, airport boards (active runways, ATIS code and information, relevant NOTAMs, etc), and a host of other information. In it there's a section that has aircraft performance information from the 7110 (the controller's FARs essentially) with performance profiles (JO 7110.65 Appendix A). Controllers are required to have certain items relevant to general control and the local facility committed to memory, but I don't recall climb/descent profiles being part of that. Most of the required items are rules from the 7110, approach charts, nav/airport locations, and so on.If you take a look at the link, you can see some of the profiles are pretty generic. From there, you augment them with experience and your own intuition: the 744 that just came out of IAD going to NRT probably isn't going to be climbing up to or beyond the listed 3000fpm, whereas the 73G going from BWI to LGA probably is going to be a little faster than the listed 4000fpm.If you have any other questions, let me know. If I don't know them, I can always ask my friends up at the TRACON.

Hi,how can I display the distances between all waypoints (like in the PMDG 737), not only the distance to the next waypoint ?How do I insert a waypoint e.g. 10 NM before waypoint Z ?(Like in the PMDG 737: FFF/#DD)Thanx.

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but if you key in a waypoint name followed by a *, then press enter, it will open a field to enter course and distance.