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Something new for FS2004 and beyond

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Hi fellow flightsimmers!I was playing flight simulator today and realised something was missing. The graphics are fantastic, the planes, especially the third party ones, are great, and the flight dynamics are also pretty good.So what else does something like FS2004 need? Well, I'm glad you asked! One word: Challenges!!!!Remember the challenges in Flight Unlimited 3? How awesome was the hoops course, or the rescue missions where you had to pick up the glider or intercept a boat!How about a Chuch Yeager's sim where you could land a space shuttle, or fly in formation with the Blue Angels??I think FS2004 is a perfect platform for challenges, where you could lay an obstacle course to fly through, or have the Robinson in a situation where you have to land in an oil rig in a thunderstorm and points can be given to how quickly and accurately you can achieve this. You could set up a course where you can time yourself by flying around pylons or hoops and seeing if you can better your previous time. I'm sure FS9 has the capability to accept those kinds of modules.I'm an avid flightsim enthusiast and I'm dying for something new in flight simulator. What does everyone else think? (has this been done already?)James

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I think this should be addressed, as I believe the potential for FS9 or later versions in supporting challenges such as rescue missions or flying through an obstacle course is immense.I'm desperate for opinions! If we can get a discussion going about this, someone out there might be listening and it might spark an idea about expanding the appeal and value of FS2004!James

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Well ideas are great because this what this 'platform'is all about. Providing a tool to fool around with be it with lago's inflight refeuling module or with hovercontrols crystal scenery based adventures. If you look in the library you'll find rescuemissions, (wild)firefightermission. There are people active simulating militaryflight. I know there is a club doing Reno airracing, so a lot has been implemented already. Or do I miss your point here :)Rob "Holland&Holland" de Vries http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Flying.gif"To go up, pull the stick back. To go down, pull the stick back harder"

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I didn't realise there were FS9 airracing clubs, I haven't heard of any addons which allow you to run through obstacles etc.My idea is to probably have special scenery developed which consists of obstacles to fly through etc, such as hoops. Another idea is to have a special module developed with challenges which can provide a stopwatch which automatically times you when you fly between two points, or which keeps score of how many hoops you've successfully flown through etc. The hoops challenge in Flight Unlimited III comes to mind.James

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Yeah great idea. I mean, there are these "challenges" etc., but I simply don't have the time to fly Lindberg's first flight across the ocean ;) At least in one session. Short challenges would be more fun, I too remember the boat chase, the lost rangers etc. in FU3. Those were fun! -Daniel

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While I am not into the "hoops" and such, realistic, real world, flying challenges are desired. I set up all kinds of extreme flights, extreme weather, extreme detsinations, all with the realism cranked. One thing I really miss is an addon I use for CFS2 with modern naval vessels, a couple of carriers, frigates, a sub and a destroyer and they are all moving along, and you can land on them, while moving!!! You would think with the newer technology we'd be able to do this in FS9.Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com

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>>One thing I really miss is an addon I use for CFS2 with modern naval vessels, a couple of carriers, frigates, a sub and a destroyer<

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mmm civilian, military...it's a platform like a said before, after all all flying even dogfighting (in terms of practice) is possible. Prove ..the succes of Lago's Tornado and Viper with the tankermodule.But yes think there's a market for such things as moving ships. I can imagine myself landing on some freight/researchvessel somewhere on the ocean to supply or whatever.You can even imagine some sinking ship (active scenery) from which passengers has to be saved within a certain time before it actually sinks...I recall Hovercontrol's Liquid Sceneryconcept which I'm willing to pay on a regular basis for if it's updated regurlarly and has a good binding story (career whatever)and good quality scenery (like georenderstuff)...Look here for example: http://www.hovercontrol.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ik...=ST;f=37;t=1272 Rob "Holland&Holland" de Vries http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Flying.gif"To go up, pull the stick back. To go down, pull the stick back harder"

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This is an interesting thread.Rob... the Hovercontrol Liquid Scenery currently has three ongoing "missions". 1. a highway accident west of Hood River; 2. a missing vessel (or two) off the coast of Oregon; and 3. fires at Big Bear in Southern California. The Liquid Scenery is freeware, and Jordan and his team try to create new missions on a more or less regular basis. The "air racing" club can be found at The Margarita Air Club -- http://www.margaritaair.com/miniBB/I believe Todd Lucas created the pylons and set up some kind of racing course.As for moving ships. I should think they would be doable. I just downloaded a Norfolk International Airport scenery designed by FS2002. As I was flying around, checking it out, I noted it had at least two separate dynamic AI service trucks driving around the airport. I guess if you can animate trucks, you should be able to animate boats. I think someone has tried this, or something similar, to create AI boats. I don't know how far along the idea got though.Good luck on whatever anyone tries to do. -Lindy :-wave

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hmm- if an AI floatplane could be "transformed" or built into a shape of a boat via GMAX- and if the AI was able to "taxi" (float) on some kind of invisible long taxiway (built with the excellent AFCAD program after creating some kind of invisible airport in the sea) at 0 altitude maybe that would work?Okay just dreaming and a longshot at that but who knows..

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I understand Flight Simulator is designed to simulate civilian flight, and that the team have endeavoured to make the flying and scenery realistic, but FS should also be about having the choice to push your flying to the limit and test your aerobatic and navigation skills.The purest way to learn to fly, in my opinion, is to push an aircraft to the limits of its flight envelope and experiment with its flight characteristics. Even if you can forget about instuments, and just fly with the entire screen, you can greatly improve your flying ability. This is what it is to fly by "feel".I believe having the ability to fly obstacle courses or difficult challenges where you're faced with a timer or scoreboard can be enourmously beneficial to your flying skills. I remember in FUIII where to fly through the hoops successfully in the P-51 Mustang within a time limit was quite a difficult task, and it improved my ability to fly the Mustang immeasurably!Like I said, you can spend hours studying navigation and fly your 747 in autopilot from Syney to New York, but that won't teach you "true" flying.Above all, challenges could add another dimension to flight simulator, especially if the idea really takes off!So...vote YES to challenges in the next version of Flight Simulator!!!!(Here's 1 vote)James

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Sorry, but count me out. I know as soon as Microsoft start implemeting "challenges" something else in the sim will suffer. I rather have them still concentrate on basics - if you think that FS9 is so mature and perfect - good for you but I personally think there is still a lot for Microsoft to do to improve basic visuals, not to mention the weather which is still hundreds of miles from where it should be. And as far as challenges go - I can set up a lot of very difficult scenarios that will test my flying abilities to the limit - today. I have a feeling once they start adding oil rigs or other theatricals to the sim it will quickly degenerate into another video game.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

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BRAVO Michael. There is plenty of challenge in FS9 if a person wants to set it up.Robert J

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One Word: Flight Unlimited III. I have yet to find a flightsim with the real-world feel of flight and innovative challenges that are in this sim.I remember playing it years ago, and although the visuals are no longer up to scratch, the enjoyment I got from it was immense. Anyone who wishes to question the validity of challenges, get a copy of FUIII, and fly the mission where you have to rescue the hikers from a mountain. You'll be awestruck by how well that's been implemented.I see no reason whatever why Microsoft can't add challenges or mission while retaining good flight fidelity in its sim. The fact of the matter is that the MS has made huge improvements the flight modelling aspect of FS throughout its history in making the sim, and there is no reason why it won't continue to do so, especially with X-Plane rapidly catching up in the visuals department and having incredible flight dynamics.I say: more challenges!!!!!James

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James,Read what we said above, no need for MS to produce challenges. Challenges can made as addonspackages. It's up to the creativity of people around like Jordan and his team. And let's hope that MS releases the SDK's soon!BTW for those into hoops look for Chicago Crazy Race V 2 in this library. Should still work in FS9 Rob "Holland&Holland" de Vries http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Flying.gif"To go up, pull the stick back. To go down, pull the stick back harder"

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I am in complete agreement with you here Michael.IMHO, if MS were to remove the GPS and more people actually tried to fly from somewhere to somewhere only using standard navaids (sans GPS), I believe many would find that extremely challenging. Throw in some real weather into the mix and you are in my world of flight simming.Cheers and thanks,Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern AustraliaMy "Around the World 4" flight pagehttp://members.iinet.net.au/~portercbp/fly...e%20World_4.htm

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Long time... no see. How's everything Down Under? To an extent I also agree. There are plenty of challenges to be had within the sim as it stands. While I depend a lot on the GPS, I'm improving my radio navigation skills.... basically I'm a bit lazy when it comes to checking charts/maps, looking up navaids, frequencies and the like. :-roll But I've learned to fly the helicopters and that was NOT an easy thing to master! Also I'm starting to fly with Real Weather myself, and that is a hoot, especially when the weather isn't that great. I just finished a virtual job for Bush Flying Unlimited with 2 mi visibility and snow. I was flying just above treetop level so I could see where I was going! (I don't fly IFR.)But for those who long for hoops courses or airraces, those things can be implemented NOW by those who want to do so. I wouldn't expect (or particularly WANT) Microsoft to spend their R&D on such activities until other aspects of the sim have been improved or implemented, as the case may be. Take care, Chris .... give Max a pat for me.-Lindy :-wave :-rotor

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Hiya Lindy,Looong time no hear. Whatchyadoing?Yup, I am having a ball on my "Around the world flight 4" (see the link below). It's giving my nav skills a real workout. Dead reckoning in a quartering wind in overcast conditions is unbelievably difficult and I have never been so happy as when I suddenly hear that beep, beep of the nav beacon that I didn't think I was going to hear before I ran into some mountain or another. The whole trip along the Kamchaka peninsula and Aleutian chain was done in pretty miserable conditions, mainly overcast and fortunately for the radio navaids and ILS or it was going to be a very short cold swim :-)Great to hear from you again, Max sends his best :-yellow1Cheers,Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern AustraliaMy "Around the World 4" flight pagehttp://members.iinet.net.au/~portercbp/fly...e%20World_4.htm

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If you want canned games I guess that's ok. I'm sure a lot of what you're talking about could be done by interested 3rd party people. Frankly I find flying as is done in the real world enough of a challange for me. I really wouldn't want to see these things added as part of the basic MSFS package. There are enough "game" type flight sims out there as it is. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that asking for this sort of thing just pushes MS further along the road to making MSFS just a game with realism and accuracy taking a back seat. I'll bet there are plenty of people within Microsoft that would love to see MSFS as an XBox product.TonyDigital-Flight

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If you think that X Plane is catching up to MSFS in the visuals departmet you need to have your eyes examined......;-)They do have a great FM system though. In my view this is the area that the MSFS dev. team really needs to work on.TonyDigital-Flight

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Yes, challenges are plentiful. This past weekend, flying LGA DCA BOS in the snow storm with 100 MPH winds, 100 ft. ceiling in swirling snow and 1/10 mile visabilities was "white knuckle" time in the sim...absolutely as real as it gets...whooped and hollared on touchdown...

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