Fellow Simmers:I'd love to ask for your help and wisdom in choosing how to add to best add to my flight sim experience....I've got a budget of around $150usd to spend and I'm considering between the following options to add to fsx. Which will likely give me the most SOP type realism I crave and increase what I learn from the overall sim experience?Purchase choice #1: Saitek Pro Flight YokeORPurchase choice #2: TrackIR 5I generally fly heavy iron or twin engine GA such as the Baron 58. Most of the heavy iron flights are with Multi Crew Experience. Will probably be starting the process towards a PPL in the next few years, so everything I put into FSX I want to look at as a type of investment assisting towards that goal.I realize the choices are a bit subjective as to which will add the most immersion and enjoyment....but I'm mostly trying to gain a consensus. I really appreciate everyone's input. Cheers!!~Alan

What's your controller now? I love my Saitek Yoke...I rarely use Trackir5 with heavies. Only in the GA aircraft and combat sims.Seems like this question would be better suited over in the Hardware Controllers & Drivers forum. Good luck on the decision!

Okay, just to complicate matters further for you, here's a question: If you are learning to fly for real in the near future, is there photorealistic scenery available for where you will be learning? I'm asking that because...If there is Photoreal scenery for the place where you will learn to fly, then I would say definitely get Track-IR, because it will help you in two ways. First up, it will allow you to get familiar with the sight picture for circuits and local navigation excursions when doing ab-initio training, getting you used to laying off drift on a circuit, maintaining the correct circuit height visually, spotting landmarks, and the value of all that cannot be understated. Any pilot will tell you that when you first learn to fly, it is incredibly easy to lose sight of the airfield - airfields simply don't stand out in real life as much as they do in FS, and knowing various ground features can really help with locating the elusive little buggers - I bet there isn't a single real-world pilot on these forums who didn't have a few seconds of panic in the early stages of learning where they couldn't find the airfield LOL And I bet you having Track-IR and some photo scenery of where you learn would've stopped that.Second, it will get you into the habit of looking in the direction in which you turn before initiating that turn, and you really need to do that in busy training circuits unless you fancy having a collision (expect to get yelled at by your flight instructor if you sling your Cessna into a turn without having a glance in that direction first! I know I did once). Amazingly, Track-IR does reinforce that habit of looking before you turn, which is a not-often-stated plus point to it, but personally I think that is actually a major contribution to flight safety for those who go and fly the real thing and who only have a single monitor set up. PC pilots are incredibly guilty of fixating on the instruments (since that tends to be the only way to know what the aircraft is doing), which is good for IFR, but when you learn, you fly VFR, and that means keeping your head up and flying by visual references, so you will get used to the value of trimming the aircraft properly and setting the throttle correctly too, whilst you are looking around with Track-IR.Now, here's the other argument: With the advent of Google Earth, you can learn the terrain around the airfield where you are learning to fly, and that can be a big help, so it is an alternative to the above in some respects. If you think that will be enough, then flying with a yoke will get you used to holding the control on a real aircraft (assuming you learn on an aircraft that has a yoke, which is by no means a certainty, more and more light singles are being made with joysticks these days, in fact I learned on an aircraft that had a stick rather than a yoke). But either way, PC sticks and yokes are generally a lot more sensitive than real aircraft controls, the throw from stop to stop is usually much smaller on a PC flight control than it is on a real aeroplane, and you don't get the same feeling of aerodynamic force and trim on a PC control that you do on a real aircraft, so there is a limit on how useful any PC flight sim control actually is. But having said that, if you know you are going to be learning on a Cessna or Piper or whatever, then it probably would help to become familiar with holding a yoke, because almost without exception, student pilots tend to grasp the stick/yoke in a vice-like grip when first learning LOL. Incidentally, if you don't have rudder pedals, I also recommend getting into the habit of moving your feet to simulate operating a rudder, as it will get you used to the notion of making coordinated control inputs; when I was learning to fly, I actually rigged up a simple stick and pedals attached to bungies (not on a flight sim just sat in a chair) to practice doing that! I'm not sure how much it actually helped, but I'm certain that it didn't hurt things, I got sent solo after seven hours and fifteen mins dual, so it must have done something LOLAl

In that case I believe TileProxy would be a viable free option... I set that up at my friend's flight school and it was amazing to see the practice area as it really is!Though without realistic 3D land marks I found it to be a little less effective then I had intended.

...........Now, here's the other argument: With the advent of Google Earth, you can learn the terrain around the airfield where you are learning to fly, and that can be a big help, so it is an alternative to the above in some respects. If you think that will be enough, then flying with a yoke will get you used to holding the control on a real aircraft (assuming you learn on an aircraft that has a yoke, which is by no means a certainty, more and more light singles are being made with joysticks these days, in fact I learned on an aircraft that had a stick rather than a yoke). But either way, PC sticks and yokes are generally a lot more sensitive than real aircraft controls, the throw from stop to stop is usually much smaller on a PC flight control than it is on a real aeroplane, and you don't get the same feeling of aerodynamic force and trim on a PC control that you do on a real aircraft, so there is a limit on how useful any PC flight sim control actually is. But having said that, if you know you are going to be learning on a Cessna or Piper or whatever, then it probably would help to become familiar with holding a yoke, because almost without exception, student pilots tend to grasp the stick/yoke in a vice-like grip when first learning LOL. Incidentally, if you don't have rudder pedals, I also recommend getting into the habit of moving your feet to simulate operating a rudder, as it will get you used to the notion of making coordinated control inputs; when I was learning to fly, I actually rigged up a simple stick and pedals attached to bungies (not on a flight sim just sat in a chair) to practice doing that! I'm not sure how much it actually helped, but I'm certain that it didn't hurt things, I got sent solo after seven hours and fifteen mins dual, so it must have done something LOLAl

Hi Al,I was hoping I might receive your insight on this topic. I love the viewpoints you take, backed up with extremely valid reasoning....thank goodness wise folks like yourself are here on the forums and kindly willing to lend such informative guidance. My sincere thanks!!It seems your points somewhat boil the decision down to whether I prefer to go with an advancement in spatial awareness/safety (trackir) or operational control familiarity (yoke)....no doubt both are of critical importance, now and during the steps taken towards real world training.I'll have to step back and consider which is of higher priority to me at this moment. A residential move within CONUS is a certainty within the next six months for me, so that slightly impacts the local training point you make, even though it's a great one. And I'd love to be able to train for a future nearby airfield, but my relocation destination is yet unknown. Ha! A very interesting comment you make regarding what A/C I'll be learning on, as my current local training school exclusively uses SR-22's, which are joystick. Though I have yet to experience it, I can fully see how a PC input will probably nowhere near mimic the feedback from a real world scenario....so it seems I've several + and -'s on both sides of the choice.Hmmmm, let me think about this one further........I'll be getting back to you ;)(re: the first repsonse...apologies, I should've mentioned I'm currently using a Thrustmaster Hotas X)Thanks so much!!

In that case I believe TileProxy would be a viable free option... I set that up at my friend's flight school and it was amazing to see the practice area as it really is!Though without realistic 3D land marks I found it to be a little less effective then I had intended.

Thank you for the candor Zach. If that's the case, would GoogleEarth (per Al's comment) or something like UTX not be a more viable alternative to the TileProxy program? I think the lack of 3D might be a deal breaker.I read a very interesting article in Flying magazine last night about the improvements in smaller, convenient simulators such as the Redbird FMX, which is more cost friendly and provides great realism in the training process utilizing 6deg of freedom and electric motion. Their illustrations of the terrain projection was just incredible! Of course, improving the PC experience is still my first and 'inexpensive' method, relatively speaking of course :)Thanks again.

I'm a UTX user, but must admit it leaves me wanting more. The road, rail and land class depictions are truly great, but besides highways I rarely ever used roads as landmarks for navigation during primary training. FSX's (albeit older) highway/power line data seems well enough to me at least for the US and especially my area.Al always has great points. His Google Earth suggestion is no different. It will train your eyes to recognize areas you're familiar with from altitude. That is a skill that takes time to sharpen, so practicing and studying Google Earth/Google Maps Satellite is a great way to do that. Google Earth is a powerful tool and we're lucky to have access to the data! (scot-free)Finally, my school ordered two Red Bird FMXs a few months ago. They're are fantastic, but they are basically a glorified FSX setup... Actually that's exactly what they are! They're great learning tools for instrument students.

A residential move within CONUS is a certainty within the next six months for me, so that slightly impacts the local training point you make, even though it's a great one. And I'd love to be able to train for a future nearby airfield, but my relocation destination is yet unknown.

In that case, it seems to me that it's the yoke that wins. You are fortunate to live in the land of the free, where the US Government takes the view that since the Govt pays for all the satellite surveillance, it should be available to those who fund the Govt with their taxes. Not every country is so benevolent, but in your case it does mean that wherever you land, there is a very good chance photo terrain will be available, so in the meantime you could be enjoying that yoke, which will of course suit your virtual jetliners better too.Al

TIR5.... hands down.... Get the Track clip pro too...A lot of planes don't even use a yoke these days. I assume you already have some sort of input device?TIR was the best FS investment I've ever made. Some people take a week to get used to it, but once you get the correct profile it's awesome.I've had other real pilots come to my house and they'll say "wow that's amazing!" That's because it is amazing.