I think it is impossble to land 747 and 777 with ILS using a joystickthe only way I can land them is using the APR bottom and auto piloton and control the throttle only for ALT when landing using the throttle Quadrant. FLAPS 30 speed 168-172 on the runway in Redding,CA

Would suggest you do some examining and evaluation of your joystick setup and calibration, including FSUIPC. After some practice, it should be a snap. (Assuming you are useing a MSFFB2 or some equivalent). If you are useing CH, you need to set the curve for proportinal effect of your movement of the stick or yoke in the control manager. I am also assuming you are flying a stable and good bird for the approaches with decent airfiles and aircraft.cfg setup. I would recommend MelJet or Posky downloads instead of the MS default birds if that is what you are useing. Some tweaking may still be needed, but you can get some models which are about as easy to land hands on as any GA aircraft. Good Luck:RTH

>FLAPS 30 speed 168-172 on the runway in Redding,CAhmmm ... sounds like the space shuttle landing speed to me ;-)Michael J.

Dear,I think on the contrary it's very possible.What happen exactly? Most of us use a joystick.You should perhaps decrease the Joystick sensitivity, Ipersonnaly set it the lower possible.On another note, you should check your weight when you try to land.Above a certain limit, if you're too heavy (i.e. too much fuel in the tank) you may crash. Also, the speed you refer to are much too high.With 40tons fuel left(it's a lot), you can descend on final at 140knots, depending of course of the tempreature and the wind (if you have a tail wind)Last, use the trim rather than the main elevatorOn real ones, pilots use the trim on the yoke (small buttons)and adjust before touch down with the yoke.I land both 777 and 747 without any problems.Hope that helps.Arnaud

>Also, the speed you refer to are much too high.Actually, the speeds are not too high. I was on a United 744 landing at Ohare in Chicago back in October and I listened to the cockpit on channel 9 and ATC asked if the captain if he could fly the approach at 180knts. He did and it seemed very fast coming in. So the speeds are cool. It is up to pilot's discretion as to how fast to fly the approach. Obviously there are limits, but if traffic is heavy and ATC wants you to keep the speed up, you do.

>Actually, the speeds are not too high. You clearly failed to grasp purpose of this thread - to tell this kid how to land his 747/777. We are talking 'nominal' procedures, the way 99% of landings are executed. Even if 180 kts approach speed was performed by someone somewhere the aircraft still had to slow down to its over-the-fence speed otherwise it would run out of the runway.Michael J.

"ATC asked if the captain if he could fly the approach at 180knts"Sorry, I really have some doubt about it!I actually flew several time for my job INTO the cockpit of747-400's, and I sware this is very doubtful!You say it's up to pilot discretion, but no, please, especiallyon a busy filed as O'Hare is, I really cannot believe this, onlythe ATC decides, you see. Some other planes front and back.-747-400 with maximum payload will more realistically land at lessthan 140 knots, maybe 150 knots, but never 180 knots dear!How about the flaps, did you look through the window, flaps 15?!...And how did it brake at touchdown, with a parachute?Final approach at more than 150 is a joke.

I agree. I happen to work in the ATC area. It would be possible (unlikely but possible) for a controller to ask captain to fly at 180 kts momentarily to make a 'hole' behind him for another aircraft however asking for a steady 180 kts approach belongs to the science fiction as far as I am concerned.Michael J.

>You clearly failed to grasp purpose of this threadActually, I just wanted to point out that real world and the flight sim world are not the same sometimes. I don't know, maybe it is me, but that's the feeling I get when I am flying myself, and I don't mean being a passanger.>You say it's up to pilot discretion, but no, please, especially>on a busy filed as O'Hare is, I really cannot believe this, only>the ATC decides, you see. Some other planes front and backCheck out your FAR-AIM and let me know what you think? PIC has final say, you see. I can't remember the FAR-AIM number. I left it in my flight bag.

"Actually, I just wanted to point out that real world and the flight sim world are not the same sometimes."I agree, but it should be the same. Definitely.otherwise I'd rather buy a playstation or an X-box.- Arnaud.

No doubt, PIC has the final say. At the busier airports (NY-JFK-EWR-LGA, ORD, ATL, LAX and so on) the controllers will say something to the effect "Maintain 180 kts to the marker." The outer marker is usually located 5 miles or so from the threshold. Most often the PIC will comply (actually I've never heard them refuse it). If the pilot cannot comply to "180 to the marker" then something else will have to worked out. However, inside the marker ATC CANNOT issue speed adjustments though they may request something to the effect "Maintain best forward speed as long as practicle". What ever the best forward speed is all relative to what ever type of aircraft it is.Read all about it from a controllers point of view hereFAA 7110.65NSection 7 - Speed Adjustmentshttp://www2.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp5/atc0507.htmlHere are the first 2 paragraphs for those not wishing to read the whole thing5-7-1. APPLICATION Keep speed adjustments to the minimum necessary to achieve or maintain required or desired spacing. Avoid adjustments requiring alternate decreases and increases. Permit pilots to resume normal speed when previously specified adjustments are no longer needed. NOTE-It is the pilot's responsibility and prerogative to refuse speed adjustment that he/she considers excessive or contrary to the aircraft's operating specifications.Here's one more link. It's a recording from NY Approach (JFK specifically) on Christmas eve this year during the 5:00 pm peak. You'll hear the final controller tell pilots to maintain 170/180 knots til ZALPO. ZALPO is the FAF (outer marker) for runway 22L and located 5.4 miles from the threshold. You'll need Winamp or Windows Media Player to listen.http://www.km3t.org/liveatc/archive/kjfk/J...-24-03-1700.mp3Chris

Talk fast don't they??!! LOL!! Very interesting to listen to, and it does show what a good job Microsoft did in creating their version of ATC for FS9.....all the pertinent bits are there, but interestingly enough, in-game ATC never mentions speed! Perhaps that will come next time around ;) It would be useful if ATC did request speeds for approach, and would ensure that you are slowed down, and it might well eliminate some of those annoying 'go-arounds' that seem to happen too often as it would bring you into the traffic patterns of the airport more evenly spaced with the AI; too often I've been brought in and told to follow plane-X on finals only to realise that I'm almost on top of it - my fault I'm sure for travelling too fast, as someone who is still relatively new to flight-simming, I still forget to reduce speed at times, or am unsure about what speed I should be at....I basically stick at around 250kts under 10,000, and try to remember to slow down sufficiently on approach! i have read in the past that it's 'ideal' to try for about 160kts for landing, and have found that some heavies will stall if at around 140-150kts. Maybe I have too much flap? -still experimenting and trying to learn!!Anyway, that audio clip is worth paying attention to :) Thanks!

You're welcome. I forgot to mention that if you want to hear more from that period all you have to do is change the time at the end of the link. The clips run in 30 minute segments and that one starts at 1700 (5:00pm). So if you want to listen to the clip starting at 5:30 change the 1700 to 1730. Example:http://www.km3t.org/liveatc/archive/kjfk/J...-24-03-1730.mp3The good folks at www.jfktower.com store the recordings in 30 minute segments for the last 30 days. Of course you can always listen to the live feed, too. Just go to www.jfktower.com and click on Live ATC.Chris

Hey there.Hate to burst some of your guys' bubbles here, but approach speeds in excess of 150 kts happen all the time. A CRJ on approach with Flaps 45 and a landing weight of 47,000lb is 158kt. 45REF on the CRJ doesn't get below 150 kts until landing weight is reduced to below 41,000lb.Ninety percent of the flights I dispatch land at or near the 47,000lb MLW of the aircraft. The most common limitation I run into when planning a flight is the 'MLW exceeded'...So much for 150kt+ approaches being a 'joke'...I too have ridden the Jumpseat into ORD numerous times, and it is all too common to be asked to given "...190 or better until established." I don't know why some of you 'seriously doubt that'.It happens everywhere, IAD, ORD, EWR, LGA, JFK, BOS...you name it, ATC will ask you to 'keep it up' as long as possible. Except maybe IAD, but thats a different story...Of course this has nothing to do with the original poster's question, and for that I apologize. I'm just not sure where some folks get their information from...Best Regards,NickBlue Ridge Dx

>is all too common to be asked to given "...190 or better until>established." I don't know why some of you 'seriously doubt>that'.>By approach speed I mean speed after the FAF (after the GS intercept). What was implied in the previous post that 180 kts was asked for during the final approach. Of course flying even at 200 kts before the FAF is quite common. Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg