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FDX016 - Nick

Autoland "RETARD" Bug

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Hey all, This may or may not be a bug, but it sure is annoying to me and I can't see why it would do this. I have my aircraft set up for a full autoland with rollout... When I get the "RETARD" annunciation just before touchdown and the AT brings the throttle back, I've noticed that it brings it back to flight idle, and not full idle. For example, I just landed at KORF and before landing when "RETARD" illuminated, it went back to flight idle. This does not seem to happen all the time though... I have a key on my flight stick mapped to hold F2 when I press it in and press F1 after I release it. It seemed to take an extremely long time to go from AT flight idle to full idle and then reverse thrust... I should not have to pull it back manually from flight idle to full idle, should I? In the end, I did not get reverse until 65 knots, which by then there is no point. This does not seem like normal behavior to me; but if it is, please enlighten me! Idea.gif P.S.- She autolands beautifully! One of the best I've seen!

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Mine does this to, I read in another post it is because of having your throttle axis mapped through FSUIPC, and not through by the native software for your unit. Although mine is not assigned via FSUIPC it still does it.

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I'll give it a shot- I have mine through FSUIPC because my flight stick does not have the best axis in the fact that it jumps around alot, but let me try without FSUIPC.

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Yes I seem to have a similar situation often also - even manual landing with A/T initially on. I fly the approach manualy with A/T engaged - about 50ft click the soft a/t disengage button - pull my throrttles to idle (also tried mapping button on throttles so if all way back it presses F1) touchdown - and then try to engage reverse - they dont - throttles to idle again and eventually can get reverse to kick in but like the OP almost pointless at that point or if heavy too late at that point! I did some testing on the ground pushing my throttles forward - spooling engines up then back to idle on the throttle while engine rpm still high and then select reverse and it works fine with how my joystick/buttons are set up the reverse will engage. Just seems to be a problem when touching down - seems like I cant manually reduce thrust below flight idle even though the a/t is now disengaged. Anyone else find reverse dificult to engage at touchdown?ive tried both with FSUPIC enabled and with Direct FSX mapping(with all enteries in FSUPIC deleted) and pretty much same issue - in fact more likely to get reverse activated when they through FSUPIC than when to FSX direct

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...ive tried both with FSUPIC enabled and with Direct FSX mapping(with all enteries in FSUPIC deleted) and pretty much same issue - in fact more likely to get reverse activated when they through FSUPIC than when to FSX direct
I experience the exact same thing!

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I asked this a while ago. It is normal behavior; it is known as approach idle.
So it doesn't allow full idle on touchdown? This is what sees to be hindering us from going into reverse quickly.

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So it doesn't allow full idle on touchdown? This is what sees to be hindering us from going into reverse quickly.
Correct. As for the not getting into reverse quickly, I use f2 and it goes into reverse instantaneously.

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Correct. As for the not getting into reverse quickly, I use f2 and it goes into reverse instantaneously.
Hmmm, this is extremely odd. Then how is there a difference with a button programmed to hold F2 while held and F1 when released?

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Hmmm, this is extremely odd. Then how is there a difference with a button programmed to hold F2 while held and F1 when released?
I can't quite comprehend what you mean. Have you tried pressing the button multiple times? I probably press f2 more than once when activating reversers without even noticing it probably, but they do come on instantly.

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I can't quite comprehend what you mean. Have you tried pressing the button multiple times? I probably press f2 more than once when activating reversers without even noticing it probably, but they do come on instantly.
Ok, I have a button on my flight stick that is supposed to hold​ F2 when I hold the button in, and then press F1 when I release the button. I think maybe the NGX is not retarding at the right time. Now that I think of it, it's not at idle when I hit the ground. Maybe it's not that it's at flight idle, but rather that it's not going into idle at the right time to be in idle after the nose lowers... I'm going to go do some circuits and see what I find out.

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Ok, I have a button on my flight stick that is supposed to hold​ F2 when I hold the button in, and then press F1 when I release the button. I think maybe the NGX is not retarding at the right time. Now that I think of it, it's not at idle when I hit the ground. Maybe it's not that it's at flight idle, but rather that it's not going into idle at the right time to be in idle after the nose lowers... I'm going to go do some circuits and see what I find out.
I'm not flying now but I'm pretty sure ground idle activates as soon as you touchdown (I've accidentally pressed f1 sometimes and get ground idle thrust).

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I've found the EECs increases thrust (e.g. on selection of flaps or gear) but it will not reduce it again if the condition that demanded the increase is removed again (e.g. gear up). I'm not sure if this is by design though - I have not scrutinized the FCOM yet. It may even require the maintenance manual to resolve. Best regards,Robin.

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Ok, after 5 manual circuits, I can see exactly what is happening. The airplane is not letting ground idle happen before I retard the throttles... I can see that anywhere from 100 down to 5 ft, I can go idle with my physical throttles, but the airplane of course limits them to flight idle. Subsequently, in order for me to go directly to idle and then reach for reversers, I would have to touch down before going to idle with my physical throttles. So what is happening is when I go idle at around 30 feet, it's limited to flight idle, and after touchdown I when I press my reverser button (Which holds F3) It has to go from flight idle to the now available ground idle, and then to reverse. My question: Is this how the airplane works in RW? I would think it would allow full idle below something like 40 or 50 feet...

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i thought the RETARTD was supposed to start at 27feet or something but its not always happening for me. Sometimes they retarard and sometimes they dont. Sometimes they even increase thrust right when the main wheels touch the ground, as you can imagine that increases my landing distance somewhat. Id say its 50/50 chance of getting into IDLE with "RETARD" annouciated. Maybe I just missing something. In Speed hold VREF+5 flaps 30 autobrake 2 or 3 both F/D on and A/T on. I have the options setting that disables my throttles when the A/T is on so I cant imagine that being the problem.

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i thought the RETARTD was supposed to start at 27feet or something but its not always happening for me. Sometimes they retarard and sometimes they dont. Sometimes they even increase thrust right when the main wheels touch the ground, as you can imagine that increases my landing distance somewhat. Id say its 50/50 chance of getting into IDLE with "RETARTD" annouciated. Maybe I just missing something. In Speed hold VREF+5 flaps 30 autobrake 2 or 3 both F/D on and A/T on.
Sure- it does idle, but this is flight idle, not full idle. Which in my case takes a longer time to go to reverse.

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I mean it sometimes increases to around 60% thats a little more than i would expect hehe. Plus when it does that there is no RETARD shown on the PFD its like its just holding the MCP speed during the flare.

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I mean it sometimes increases to around 60% thats a little more than i would expect hehe. Plus when it does that there is no RETARD shown on the PFD its like its just holding the MCP speed during the flare.
This is a manual landing right?

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manual landing with AT on sometimes I get RETARD sometimes I dont
Can't do that as far as I know. You must disengage AT for manual landing. No wonder it's holding speed.

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Can't do that as far as I know. You must disengage AT for manual landing. No wonder it's holding speed.
Nick, like I said, I also asked the dev team about this and they said that it is normal to get approach idle while flaring. I think the problem relies with your throttle mapping. Can you try to do as I do and engage reversers with f2? If you can, then it's probably how you are mapping the command, as like I said, the dev team told me approach idle is what the real thing does while on approach and flaring (and my reversers activate immediately when I use the f2 button).

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Nick, like I said, I also asked the dev team about this and they said that it is normal to get approach idle while flaring. I think the problem relies with your throttle mapping. Can you try to do as I do and engage reversers with f2? If you can, then it's probably how you are mapping the command, as like I said, the dev team told me approach idle is what the real thing does while on approach and flaring (and my reversers activate immediately when I use the f2 button).
Alfredo,My reply above yours was not directed about my initial problem...Anyway, If that's how it's supposed to work, then I guess I will have to figure it out. My button on my flight stick is doing nothing more than you are doing. Holding F2 on touchdown and then F1 when you wan't to go back to idle. The only difference is that I have one button to push that performs two separate commands.

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Yeah, sorry I replied to the wrong one. Meant to reply to the one you did 7 posts above this one. Anyways, I hope you solve your problem. Post again if you need more help.

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