CTD - any advice?

[ddawson 35]

Hi spotted this "Errors caused by problems with ntdll.dll are commonly occurring in all of the "Microsoft Windows" operating systems. The universal solution to your problems is to download and re-install a new copy of the ntdll.dll file. Another more time consuming solution is to re-install your OS (Operating "cheers aNDY

Unfortunately, it's probably not that easy. The faulting module is reported as ntdll.dll. That's where the actual error occurred. It isn't necessarily, or even likely that the code in ntdll.dll actually caused the problem. This dll file houses a large number of the Windows API functions that applications use. If some program calls one of these functions, while passing in a bad parameter, a fault will occur. If the calling program isn't prepared to catch the error and deal with it gracefully, you will find yourself sitting on the desktop, inventing new curse words. I know this from programming my own gauges. My current project is causing this exact problem. If I take the gauge out of the test panel, I have no problems. If I put it in, I get an access violation (the c0000005 exception code from the OP) on gauge exit. The problem is clearly in my gauge, but the error is reported as being in ntdll.dll. In the case at hand, my money is on a damaged or missing scenery file. That's why I suggested deleting the scenery.dat files. FS will rebuild those on its own, so it is a painless first step. After that you're looking at replacing scenery files until the problem goes away. Doug

[martinlest2 58]

OK, once again, many thanks for the ideas. Answers: - No, I don't update FSNav every time I add new airports - I do it every couple of months on average. I did update it a few days ago though, so the screenshots are current.- Yes, I've already tried deleting all the scenery dat files and letting FS rebuild them. There was no change vis-a-vis the CTD.- I have dozens of addon sceneries for Greece (I lived there for over 10 years, so I fly there a lot, always very nostalgically!) and several for Romania. As I've said, makes no difference whether they are active (or deleted from the scenery.cfg file) or not.- "Do you apply Navigraph database updates for PMDG and FSNav?" Sometimes - I have Airac 1103 currently.- Not had a virus - keep MS Security Essentials up to date and scan every week or so (I only use this PC for FS - I have a laptop for everything else). I am definitely not going to reinstall FS for this though - my setup is SO complex that the only way I could ever get back to how I have it is by copying folders from my backup to the new default installation. That would just transfer any problem of course. I don't see me 'starting from scratch' ever again with an FS9 installation, to be frank! Probably my having such a complex (= rich!) setup of 3rd. party stuff is part of the problem, but I almost never these days fly to or from default FS9 airports - and the scenery en route in Fs9 now is just stunning. One reason I never fly FSX (although it is installed on the same PC - on a different drive from FS9) is that my FS9 looks better, and certainly runs better on this PC - specs as per my signature. I am about as far as you can get I reckon from an out-of-the-box installation, but I am paying the price, I realise that. Yes, I am afraid that the ntdll.dll file is not itself the cause of the problem - even in Windows 7, error reporting is fairly basic. Something in FS9 is causing ntdll.dll to have problems, but it's not that file itself - if only it were that easy. But thanks of course for the suggestion.

[HoratioWondersocks 4]

Unfortunately, it's probably not that easy. The faulting module is reported as ntdll.dll. That's where the actual error occurred. It isn't necessarily, or even likely that the code in ntdll.dll actually caused the problem. This dll file houses a large number of the Windows API functions that applications use. If some program calls one of these functions, while passing in a bad parameter, a fault will occur. If the calling program isn't prepared to catch the error and deal with it gracefully, you will find yourself sitting on the desktop, inventing new curse words. I know this from programming my own gauges. My current project is causing this exact problem. If I take the gauge out of the test panel, I have no problems. If I put it in, I get an access violation (the c0000005 exception code from the OP) on gauge exit. The problem is clearly in my gauge, but the error is reported as being in ntdll.dll. In the case at hand, my money is on a damaged or missing scenery file. That's why I suggested deleting the scenery.dat files. FS will rebuild those on its own, so it is a painless first step. After that you're looking at replacing scenery files until the problem goes away. Doug

Hi DougI bow to your obvious greater knowledge in programming etc etc. I have no idea about what the good old dll is or does, I am just suggesting what I would do in this situation and that is note the error message,understand little or none of what it says ,and then replace any apparently faulting Dll mentioned with a new copy.A case of the blind leading the ignorant ,but occasionally it does work .When you get a particularly nasty CTD all eventualities are worth looking into.cheers Andy

[martinlest2 58]

When you get a particularly nasty CTD all eventualities are worth looking into... I agree! :-)

[martinlest2 58]

Well, weirder and weirder folks! I have been testing the CTD near Bucharest some more, and find that I can fly into LROP, right over the 'dodgy' FLR VOR, with no CTD at all. If however I slew the a/c around 180° when I get nearer the airport and come back west, past FLR again - instant CTD. It seems to be a one-way thing! I've tested with a number of flights and this is what happens each time. Unbelievable really - inexplicable, for sure! And now (deep breath!), having set the flight to head east out of LROP to avoid the FLR VOR marker, I get a CTD when I reach the VOR on that side - 'OPT'. Makes me wonder if the waypoints database in FS9 has a problem - can't recall which file has this information, but I'll try to locate it. Otherwise, I need to write a flightplan that avoids all VOR markers near LROP!! I've been stuck in this $£*!@!! city for over a week now!!! M.

[martinlest2 58]

S O L V E D !!!!! At least I think so. I've tested several times and all seems OK now, no CTDs. As I said above, the fact that I got the CTD as I hit two VOR markers seemed a bit of a coincidence. So I disabled the FS9/scenery/Eure folder, where that information was likely to be - and no crashes any more. The two most likely culprits were the files NV9EURE0.BGL and OB9EURE0.BGL, so I reactivated the folder and removed those two files. No CTD. Turned out to be OB9EURE0.BGL that was causing the CTDs. I noted that both of these files had a later file date than the same ones in an 'out-of-the-box' FS9.1 installation I keep for testing purposes. So I copied over the default FS9 file so that both the bgls were operational again - and all is fine. I even found the culprit with the help of 'InfoRapid Search & Replace': I have a copy of all the zip files I ever downloaded in the past ten years, so set that programme to search for any file within those zip files that contained a reference to OB9EURE0.BGL. There was one 'ReadMe' file, and there too, when I opened the indicated zip file, were the newer bgl files with instructions to add them to the FS9/scenery/Eure folder, replacing the default files. The scenery in question is "ummsv821full.zip" (AVSIM library - no longer there, probably not re-uploaded after the site crashed) - Minsk airport. So, assuming FS9 isn't playing cruel jokes on me and starts crashing again, the issue seems to be solved. It always boils down to a bgl file in the end - it was SO frustrating that I couldn't find it. I would have tried disabling the FS9/scenery/Eure folder earlier, but since I didn't get the CTD with all my other addons removed and my default FS9 folders active, I didn't think that there could be anything in those FS9/scenery/ folders that could be causing the problem. The files must be clashing with other sceneries I have installed I guess.. Hope this helps someone else at some stage. Thanks again folks for the input and encouragement! M. If I go back to FS9 after this and the CTD is back, I might just throw myself (or better, the PC??) out of the window! (I live on the 20th. floor...).

[rayharris51 5]

Martin, Yeah, thinking about itI had a similar experience with Naples Airport - it was a Rome airport addon that had changed some of the regional files around Naples and gave some very strange effects like floating planes - took me ages to sort it out. Much easier when you are at your comp though. Well done and good luck, guess you learned a lot with this one! Ray

[martinlest2 58]

Yes, good to have sorted it out - and not so complex in the end! I flew a PMDG 747 freighter out of Bucharest and got to Athens without a hitch. What a relief!! M.

[ja99 2]

I share your frustration until i removed some German Airports i had the problem over Germany.My latest annoyance is a black screen then back to desktop and FS9 restarts this only happens at EDDM and LEBL.I go back the next day and it`s fine.So where to? any guess is as good as mine.Pity Microsoft dosen`t come to the party and find a solution.PS I have the patch installed but it`s old now.

[John Hinson 24]

I share your frustration until i removed some German Airports i had the problem over Germany.My latest annoyance is a black screen then back to desktop and FS9 restarts this only happens at EDDM and LEBL.I go back the next day and it`s fine.So where to? any guess is as good as mine.Pity Microsoft dosen`t come to the party and find a solution.PS I have the patch installed but it`s old now.

Well of course Microsoft would point out that by installing a faulty third-party add-on, the issue is entirely yours and not theirs - if indeed this is a problem with Flight Simulator at all. Flight Simulator 2004 has been pushed way beyond MS's original ideas and intentions of nearly ten years ago by developers and in the process they do all sorts of things which may involve modifying default files or clashing with certain hardware combinations. Many developers of free add-ons have no testing regime and consider themselves exempt from fixing issues whereas of course paid-for software should carry those responsibilities. Many (not all, by any means) developers of the thousands of free add-ons so easily downloaded are amateurs and wouldn't have a clue how to! Its unfair to blame the Microsoft or their software. It works fine out of the box plus the 9.1 upgrade. MS provide a valuable tool that gives strong clues as to where the problems lie by usually indicating the DLL file that caused the issue. That's always the place to start (in my opinion) and it amazes me the number of forum discussions (not this particular one) that charge into ideas and suggestions for solutions without even considering that. Unfortunately, a black screen is unable to display that information but such is nearly always caused by a hardware issue or clash with other software so scolding Microsoft over this seems a little cruel. In your situation I would be looking at graphic drivers, and perhaps at software running alongside FS. John