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martinlest2

CTD - any advice?

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I don't often get a CTD but this one is driving me nuts! Details here: Problem signature: Problem Event Name: APPCRASH Application Name: FS9.EXE Application Version: 9.1.0.40901 Application Timestamp: 4135a208 Fault Module Name: ntdll.dll Fault Module Version: 6.1.7600.16695 Fault Module Timestamp: 4cc7ab86 Exception Code: c0000005 Exception Offset: 0002dfe4 OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.768.3 Locale ID: 2057 I know ntdll.dll CTDs are the devil to troubleshoot, but what I have so far is this: CTD first happened just north of intersection 'obuga', a little to the south of LROP. So I changed my flightplan and headed west from Bucharest instead - but annoyingly also got the CTD roughly the same distance out (at N44.30.3 E25.44.1). Most times I can stop a CTD by removing certain 3rd. party software (often one bgl file - found by trial and error usually), but this time I have wasted hours with no result... However, if I replace my scenery.cfg with the default FS9 one, the CTD doesn't happen. I also found that if I remove all entries after area.250 in my scenery.cfg file, plus one or two others below that number which seem to cause the CTD if I leave them in, I also don't get the CTD. But adding any entries after 250, no matter what they are, brings back the CTD. Remove them and I can run the same flight (an AutoSave file loads about 30 seconds before the CTD) several times - never a CTD. The crash happens in the same spot every time and if I use the FS9 'map' to load the co-ordinates near where it occurs, rather than use the AutoSave.flt file, FS9 will still CTD. Have run chkdsk /f on my C drive and the drive with FS9. Still get a CTD. Deleted page file and rebuilt ... in vain. This surely must be software related, if the default scenery.cfg or a truncated version of my own file fixes the problem? Suggestions welcome!! Thanks, Martin

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default scenery cfg stops the ctd. So why not use it then.
Well, obviously he doesn't want to lose all his add-on sceneries! Martin- you are 90% there - you have identified the problem is in a scenery layer numbered after 250. One of those sceneries has a problem - the next thing to do is sysematically eliminate batches of sceneries until you can narrow it down to the actual culprit. Its probably a dodgy texture in a scenery. John

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Hi, thanks for the replies: yes, John, that's what I thought. I've done the same thing many times and always found the culprit, but this time no luck - I spent hours yesterday eliminating them batch by batch (I hated to go to bed with this unsolved!!) but I have never had a CTD like this - sometimes I would remove a scenery and the CTD would disappear: I'd put it back and still no CTD. Test once more with no changes - the CTD is there again, so it has been almost impossible to pinpoint the cause this time. I can only think that there are dozens of separate sceneries which are causing this (though unlikely - I can't find any common bgl files in any of the suspect scenery folders). It'd take me days to do this by trial and error - I have 1230 entries in the file, so doing it one by one is not an option really! Also odd - I flew in to LROP from LOWW yesterday with no problems at all. The Romanians don't seem to want me to leave however! What I have done is I have created a special scenery.cfg file which has all the basic FS9 sceneries plus those of LROP and also the airports I want to fly to. Most of the scenery is missing, but as I am not flying anywhere near those deleted sceneries, it won't matter. I am trying to fly from LROP to LGAV, so I have those sceneries active plus a few other bits and pieces of Greek scenery that will probably show up en route. With that scenery.cfg file active, I don't get the crash (at least I didn't this morning when I tested it - who knows what will happen later tonight!). I then made a batch script file which will install the 'LROP' scenery.cfg' and revert to my usual cfg file at one mouse click. So I have found a way around this - but not a solution. Very frustrating not to be able to track down the culprit on this occasion. Martin

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Crashed again, same place. Removed two more unnecessary scenery.cfg entries (I was using my highly reduced/bare minimum version) and started the sim from the last AutoSave file (flying with a PMDG 747 - the aircraft reloads perfectly after FS9 crashes (unlike many others), panel, FMC and all: hats off to PMDG) - I still get the crash with any other a/c BTW - and this time all was fine. An hour later, well into Greece: a new CTD!!! Oh, it's SO depressing. It's not as if I have made any changes to the setup recently - I bought and added Eiresim's new Luton airport, that's all, but what can that have done ... it's disabled along with everything else in my short scenery.cfg file in any case. Tried copying all the default FS9/texture and FS9/scenery/world/texture bitmaps from a 'clean' FS9 installation (no overwriting of course), just in case a vital bmp file had gone missing - but no, nothing was written to my texture folders, so all must be present and correct I assume. Tried same flight in winter instead of summer. CTD as ever, exactly the same moment. If this were a hardware problem I wouldn't expect the CTD to be so precisely at the same place and time on every occurrence.. Have been looking at Process Monitor to see if I can work out what might be happening at the moment of the CTD - but Process Monitor hung at the wrong moment - not having much luck! I didn't see any obvious problems with FS9.exe - bmps not found or whatever - but there were pages and pages of dxdiag.exe queries - I will run the flight again + Process Monitor tomorrow. I wonder what the new CTD over the border in Greece might mean... The very, very last resort will be to copy over one of the full backups of all my FS9 setup (I back up regularly, luckily, using a batch script to update backup folders with new/changed files) to see if I still have the problem with a version I had a few months ago, but that's getting 'serious' ... Martin :-(

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Hi Long shot, but do you have Ultimate Terrain Europe, and UT USA and/or UT CAN/AK installed? If so is it fully patched up to date? LROP and LGAV are both outside UT areas I know but adjacent to UT Europe. Sometimes in my experience, areas on the margin of an area can be affected when UT installation has some problems. I used to have problems in WA USA, no matter what I did, I could not load KHSN with that installation of UT USA. Once I completely uninstalled and clean reinstalled all three versions of UT (inc Europe), it finally worked. Maybe look in their forums for ideas. Anyway, just an idea... hope you solve it. Ray

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Have you added anything to your Addon Scenery\scenery or texture folders, or any other of the basic FS folders which you have probably kept in your slimmed-down scenery.cfg file which could cause your problem? Colin B

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Hi, I do have UT but I have deleted it from the scenery.cfg file in my tests. No, my slimmed down cfg file has almost nothing in it now apart from the default entries. As I didn't get the CTD with the default scenery.cfg file (though I haven't tested the CTD in Greece yet, and even with the first CTD near Bucharest, was that a fluke??)) I will start from there and add the 3rd. party entries one by one - there are only about 8 or 9 now after 'Propeller Objects'. I HAVE to get this solved - will be the first CTD I haven't managed to fix in 10 years if not - will post back of course. M.

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Hi, thanks for the replies: yes, John, that's what I thought. I've done the same thing many times and always found the culprit, but this time no luck - I spent hours yesterday eliminating them batch by batch (I hated to go to bed with this unsolved!!) but I have never had a CTD like this - sometimes I would remove a scenery and the CTD would disappear: I'd put it back and still no CTD. Test once more with no changes - the CTD is there again, so it has been almost impossible to pinpoint the cause this time. I can only think that there are dozens of separate sceneries which are causing this (though unlikely - I can't find any common bgl files in any of the suspect scenery folders). It'd take me days to do this by trial and error - I have 1230 entries in the file, so doing it one by one is not an option really!
The only other things I can think it might be are time or date-related, and this could be:
  1. Dawn or dusk textures
  2. Seasonal textures
  3. A dodgy AI aircraft

John

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Well, not seasonal or dawn/dusk - I am flying midday and I tried changing the seasons - still CTD. Moved all my AI a/c out of the fs9/aircraft folder and set traffic to 0% - CTD still happens. Not sure what I am going to do about this now - I'll have to persevere I suppose but I am running out of ideas. Will have to try my backup folder, as suggested above. M. LATER: This is why I might never solve this problem: I have a lot of miscellaneous 3rd. party AFCADs in the FS9/Addon Scenery/Scenery folder. I found that with this folder deactivated (in the default FS9 scenery.cfg - no other addons), I didn't get the crash. Made it active again - CTD. Tried once more, active then not active - same thing. So, OK something in that folder is causing a crash. So I activated the Addon Scenery folder again and starting with an empty folder - all the bgl files moved out to a temp folder - bit by bit put back all the AFCAD files. I finally ended up with them all back in place in the active folder, as before, but now there is no CTD! Why not?! There was half an hour ago before I started on this wild goose chase. It's impossible to troubleshoot this if it isn't at all consistent. No wonder I can't pinpoint a culprit amongst 1230 entries! As a number of times before, I am almost at the 'find an easier hobby' stage... This is too frustrating/depressing. Will (when I refind some resolve!) remove all my scenery folders and replace them with backups from a few months ago, where, as far as I know, there was no problem (though it's ages since I flew in Romania - so no guarantees). M.

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Well, not seasonal or dawn/dusk - I am flying midday and I tried changing the seasons - still CTD. Moved all my AI a/c out of the fs9/aircraft folder and set traffic to 0% - CTD still happens. Not sure what I am going to do about this now - I'll have to persevere I suppose but I am running out of ideas. Will have to try my backup folder, as suggested above. M. LATER: This is why I might never solve this problem: I have a lot of miscellaneous 3rd. party AFCADs in the FS9/Addon Scenery/Scenery folder. I found that with this folder deactivated (in the default FS9 scenery.cfg - no other addons), I didn't get the crash. Made it active again - CTD. Tried once more, active then not active - same thing. So, OK something in that folder is causing a crash. So I activated the Addon Scenery folder again and starting with an empty folder - all the bgl files moved out to a temp folder - bit by bit put back all the AFCAD files. I finally ended up with them all back in place in the active folder, as before, but now there is no CTD! Why not?! There was half an hour ago before I started on this wild goose chase. It's impossible to troubleshoot this if it isn't at all consistent. No wonder I can't pinpoint a culprit amongst 1230 entries! As a number of times before, I am almost at the 'find an easier hobby' stage... This is too frustrating/depressing. Will (when I refind some resolve!) remove all my scenery folders and replace them with backups from a few months ago, where, as far as I know, there was no problem (though it's ages since I flew in Romania - so no guarantees). M.
"Find an easy hobby stage." You might find an easier hobby ,but come on what is the point of that? All the horrible s that can make FS sometimes seem like a particularly masochistic and hard won labour of love are just what makes it so good when it all goes right.Your a simmer SIR!Leave all the other simpleton stuff to the masses.FLY THAT PLANE SIR! and stay with us.biggrin.pngAndy

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First, are you always testing for the CTD in exactly the same place? eg as you said before at N44.30.3 E25.44.1. If you need to analyse AFCAD files it may help to use something like Lee Swordy's ScanAFD (It's downloadable from AVSIM & Simviation and get v2.21). This handy util allows you to look for defunct/dupe AFCADS, both default and addon ones. It looks like AFCADS could be a problem here. This can happen where you delete main scenery folders when uninstalling them. but leave the orphan AFCADS in the AddonScenery/Scenery folder, or install new sceneries for the same area, when an old AFCAD is left . Another possible help might be this; you cannot see exactly what scenery files are being loaded normally, but I think there is a util that can tell you what scenery (bgl files) are loaded at any one specific time. Trouble is I cant remember what it's called. It is not something you use normally as it is a pain but it writes a continuous log of all fiels that are loaded into memeory., It is not an FS9 util but for Win XP. FS2004 does not always load all possible sceneries for any given region. If your dud AFCAD was not loaded the time you tried it out it may not always cause a problem. Its only when that airport scenery is loaded into memory that it can cause problems and then only if there is a conflict. Do you have a traffic program like Ultimate Traffic? Check these AFCADS as well. Finally, if you are feeling confident, LMW viewer could help by showing you all the scenery and autogen files and objects associated with each scenery area/airport etc Good luck and hope this helps. Ray

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Thanks for the encouragement Andy - but I suppose I was just venting my frustration: there's little chance really that I will ever give up simming. I've been passionate about it for over ten years now, it's become a way of life and I fly pretty much every day. Never seem to tire of it. Sounds like you have the bug as bad as me! Martin

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Thanks for the input Ray. I test in the same two places that I get a CTD en route from LROP to LGAV. I have used AFCAD2 for years - and ScanAFD: the latter doesn't show any duplicate AFCADs, but as I say, the real annoyance is that if I remove all the AFCAD files batch by batch, the CTD stops. But when I put them back, I still don't get the CTD. The next day, the CTD is there. It makes it very hard to know how to troubleshoot, as it's not consistent. But I am 99.99% sure it is a software problem - if it were caused by hardware or dxdiag or whatever I don't see why the CTDs would occur at exactly (and I mean exactly, I can tell by where ATC gets to when the crash occurs) the same spots every time. Yes, the utility you mention is Process Monititor, and I did say above that I have tried it and analysed the file list during the seconds around the time of the CTD - can see none of the usual errors, like missing bmp files. Got LWM viewer too - but like I say, with the CTD being 'cured' by removing certain files, but remaining 'cured' for a while after I put them back, it's hard to pinpoint what to look at. For now, I can fly from LROP (at least I could yesterday!) with the default scenery.cfg file up to and including 'Propeller Objects" (Area 37) plus my LROP scenery, plus my LGAV scenery, plus FSGenesis mesh, plus Aerosoft AES (I have AES at both airports). That in practice is OK, but I will still continue to troubleshoot this - I will find out how big the areas are where the CTDs occur first. Keep you posted! Nothing worse than an 'unsolvable' CTD, is there? Martin

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Later: Replaced my FS9/Addon Scenery, FS9/Texture and FS9/Scenery folders with backed up versions from 2010 .. still get CTD.

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Welcome to the CTD Club, see my Jackson WY post. I am now going to try the afcad route again. My mentor Mel, has helped me a lot, but anything is worth trying.If I find a cure I'll let you know.Echofox

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Could probably be a dodgy bgl landclass file thats causing your problems. Dimi

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Any idea where to search for dodgy landclass files, can't see anything on the install discs, or are you thinking add-on.With apologies Martin for jumping into your posting.RegardsEchofox

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Back in FS2002, there was a limit to the number of items in the scenery.cfg file. I think it was 256 (two to the eighth) and I've wondered if this limit still exists in FS2004. Does anyone know? Does scenery have access to its "layer number" and does it make use of this? If you are installing older FS2002 scenery in FS2004, and it's at a layer above 256, that might be an issue. Try moving some of the sceneries you have installed above 250 down to lower levels.

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Back in FS2002, there was a limit to the number of items in the scenery.cfg file. I think it was 256 (two to the eighth) and I've wondered if this limit still exists in FS2004. Does anyone know?
Some say there is a limit of 331 in FS2004, but its a myth. John

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See today's posting "Jackson WY #2", may help you in a new direction. With help it's taken me a week to resolve problem.Echofox

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Many thanks for the continued replies - I do appreciate people trying to help: FS is my no.1 love (apart from my family, probably!) and I go to bed almost depressed knowing my flights are CTDing (is that a verb?). To be honest, with so many solved CTDs under my belt in the past 10 years, I'd sort of come to look on them as a minor inconvenience - always easily solvable. And so they have been in the past, but this one has me beat - maybe it's teaching me not to be so blasé !! So .... no, not a dodgy landclass file (my usual prime suspect), as I still get a CTD with almost all my addons bgls removed. BTW, landclass files can lurk anywhere, often but by no means always starting with "LC_", but a programme called FlightSimManager will locate them all. Sadly the programme is no longer being developed and you need to turn your PC clock back to about 2002 to run it (or use RunAsDate - Google it - to do this on a programme-by-programme basis) but FlightSimManager is a really useful programme if you can be bothered to set up your PC so that it will run. There is a limit to the number of addons that will show in the scenery library - many of mine don't show any more, but I never go to the scenery library within FS9 now - indeed, the other day when I did want to go there I found I had forgotten how! However, you can add as many as you like to the scenery.cfg file by hand and (100% sure) they work there just fine. Again, there's a great little programme to make this a very easy task - Scenery Align (in the AVSIM library) - I wouldn't want to run FS9 without it now, I use it all the time. In any case, bgl files of any kind are not an issue per se, as I still get the CTD with the out-of-the-box scenery.cfg plus a few needed 3rd. party files - only 50 entries or fewer in total. If you read above you will see that it is not those few added entries that are causing the CTD, I won't explain again here.. Will look at "Jackson WY #2" .. and will report back. I may do a System Restore meanwhile too: as you say, anything is worth a try. Will also try a flight tomorrow, Vienna to Bucharest (i.e. LROP, where I get my '1st' CTD every time): I flew that same route 4 or 5 days ago and landed in Bucharest with no CTD. If there is one this time I will know something has gone very amiss in the last few days (but I didn't change or add anything in that time, so no idea what it could be!!). OK, thanks again. Will post back again tomorrow (bedtime here in BKK now!!).. M.

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... just read "Jackson WY #2": wouldn't help I'm afraid as I already tried replacing my whole FS9/scenery folder with the default one (and the FS9/texture folder -as above) - still get a CTD.

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Hi Martin, OK, do you use SCM2004 by the way, to add delete and analyse scenery files? Sounds like you know your stuff, but if you don't already use this, its very handy. My scenery.cfg has 383 entries with no problems. Some questions that may help here... You said that the your scenery cfg is OK with up to 250 entries and presumably no matter what you put in after that, you get CTDs. What do they look like? does the sim just disappear, or do you get a black screen, a frame freeze etc? You said "I also found that if I remove all entries after area.250 in my scenery.cfg file, plus one or two others below that number which seem to cause the CTD if I leave them in."Which sceneries do you have to remove below the 250 limit that also cause CTDs whatever their position?

  • Presume you checked that the order of scenery files in your cfg is correct i.e. mesh and landclass below sceneries? (sorry if these are dumb questions).
  • What is your PC spec and OS?
  • Do you use add on weather eg Active Sky, Rex?
  • Which planes are you flying when you get CTDs - have you changed planes to test?
  • The appropriately named waypoint, 'obuga' is indeed south of Bucharest. I do not know if it is on any of the SIDS out of LROP as I couldn't find it. Have you tried departing via the VALPA 08L departure, that avoids obuga? Does it still happen using other SIDS? I haven;t looked on a Jeppesen plate so I could be wrong here.

btw I did the flight from LROP to LGAV in a Wilco Feellthere E175 at FL330. I have UT Europe and 383 entries in my cfg. I have freeware add ons for both LROP and LGAV. Departed LROP via obuga. Very nice route. Let me know. Regards, Ray

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