Dear PMDG, Yesterday I decided again to go through those threads where I made my own contributions and I found out something motivating me to email to the AVSIM administration. The following quote gives you an idea:

Axel, Your post with a link to SimFlight wasn't removed by AVSIM but by PMDG. You may want to contact them to find out why. Chase Kreznor | Library/Forum Administrator | AVSIMBe like the bird that, passing on her flight awhile on boughs too slight, feels them give way beneath her, and yet sings, knowing that she hath wings. ~ Victor Hugo From: FlyingAxx@<address snipped>Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:16 AMTo: [email protected]Subject: Error on the forums Hello, By scrolling through the threads I contributed to I found this one: The first ever REVIEW of the PMDG 737NGX! in PMDG 737NGX However, when trying to open it I received an error message and I'm wondering why. As long as I followed this tread up it was more or less based upon misunderstandings being caused by insufficient automated translations (Google Translator). As I can judge myself the review being discussed there was quite enthusiastic but fair enough to point to some weaknesses being still present for some users. One of the authors, Oskar Wagner, is a retired Swiss captain with well more than 10000 hrs experience who contributed a lot in the past in some Newsgroups and to some products (as far as I know). However, PMDG and AVSIM should not start censoring even if the opinions might differ. As I tried to explain there seems to be even no reason for doing so. There are other treads being much worse but still accessible. Just my $0,02... Regards,Axel

As I did not follow up the related tread in every detail (I wasn't the originator anyway). It might have been that it "declined" towards insults, I don't know, but in my own understanding it would have been fully sufficient to delete the respective article(s) and not the complete tread. My opinion about this you may read in the above quoted email. By the way, I love to fly the NGX even if I experienced some problems and I have all respect for PMDG's work. Nonetheless I got the impression that there seems to be an idea of thin-skinned reactions sometimes if a user does not react too enthusiastic or even tries to compare to other products. However, I think the way to react to problems is absolutely professional - in terms of service and in the way how the fixes have been produced up to now. Even the delays regarding the service pack and the related communication is absolutely all-right for me. I'm just asking why an even not critical thread disappeared completely.

While I didn't see your original post, what you're asking about might be related to this excert from a post about a German language review of the NGX "DELETED DUE TO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION.... You cannot simply copy, translate and paste content from another site. We do not allow it to be done to AVSIM and we don't allow it to be done to others. Please re-read our Terms of Use. Only warning." The excerpt was text entered by, I believe, an AVSIM moderator. Hope this helps.

While I didn't see your original post, what you're asking about might be related to this excert from a post about a German language review of the NGX "DELETED DUE TO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION.... You cannot simply copy, translate and paste content from another site. We do not allow it to be done to AVSIM and we don't allow it to be done to others. Please re-read our Terms of Use. Only warning." The excerpt was text entered by, I believe, an AVSIM moderator. Hope this helps.

Herman, I certainly believe that you have missed the point. I surely support what you are quoting - it was Tom Allensworth recently writing this by deleting the one(!) related posting in another thread. This shows that it would have been fully sufficient to delete the related contribution(s) - which wasn't mine - and not the complete thread. It had been a quite lively and sometimes controversial discussion but a company like PMDG having such a great product like the NGX should stand above that even if not all comments have been suitable (probably). By the way, an AVSIM admin explained in his answer to my mail that PMDG was responsible for the related erasure.

It is normally Forum practice, that a MOD explains the reason why they remove a post -- if only to eductae the posters why certain posts are not acceptable. If the reasons are not explained to the poster, how can posters know why the post was removed, and not make the same mistakes again. Example. The Post recently Removed for copyright reasons, by Tom ( with explanation why ) That being said, AVSIM does have a technical issue with their forum, in that sometimes TOPICS stop listing for a period of time, so it might look as if sometimes your posted has been deleted, This is seldom the case, You can normally find your post if you do a search on some of the unique words you remember using in the post, Some time later, the Topic will magically re-appear. .... Happens a lot ... Also, remember this is PMDG's FORUM -- it's up to them how they Moderate it, ( within the Rules and Guidelines of it being an Avism Forum.) ( Many might consider that a litte Forum "Pruning" would be a good thing !!!)

Herman, I certainly believe that you have missed the point. I surely support what you are quoting - it was Tom Allensworth recently writing this by deleting the one(!) related posting in another thread. This shows that it would have been fully sufficient to delete the related contribution(s) - which wasn't mine - and not the complete thread. It had been a quite lively and sometimes controversial discussion but a company like PMDG having such a great product like the NGX should stand above that even if not all comments have been suitable (probably). By the way, an AVSIM admin explained in his answer to my mail that PMDG was responsible for the related erasure.

"Ifly versus PMDG", thats the title of a well written review that also focuses on the negative aspects of PMDG's 737. And as most NGX users know ... there are quite a lot.You can also read in the summary that people who have already bought the Ifly dont need to spend money on the rival. And furthermore the author cant fully recommend the PMDG (see preface). Nachtigall, ick hör dir trapsen!

"Ifly versus PMDG", thats the title of a well written review that also focuses on the negative aspects of PMDG's 737. And as most NGX users know ... there are quite a lot.You can also read in the summary that people who have already bought the Ifly dont need to spend money on the rival. And furthermore the author cant fully recommend the PMDG (see preface).

IFLY Who!? Seriously people need to understand using the AVSIM Forums is not a Right it's a Privelege. Follow the Rules and the Terms of Service you agreed to when you joined and you won't have any problems. On the other hand if I was PMDG and somebody posted a bunch of Crap about the IFLY I would delete it ASAP! People can write all the Reviews they want to on their own Websites, there is no good reason to post that in the PMDG Support Forum, unless your trying to stir up a hornets nest. If your an IFLY fan don't let the door hit you on your way out while heading back to your own Forum.

"Ifly versus PMDG", thats the title of a well written review that also focuses on the negative aspects of PMDG's 737. And as most NGX users know ... there are quite a lot.You can also read in the summary that people who have already bought the Ifly dont need to spend money on the rival. And furthermore the author cant fully recommend the PMDG (see preface). Nachtigall, ick hör dir trapsen!

Ich kann Dich leider nicht ansprechen... (don't know your name unfortunately) Indeed, I didn't have a problem to read again the original and I can remember the article well. However, I only wanted to address the fact that some opinions obviously where not welcome and that I do not understand why PMDG seems not to have the greatness to bear some criticism. BTW, I would even say that the authors did not focus on the negative aspects. Obviously one of the three had some problems and the overall judgement showed quite clear that it depends on someone's expectations, e.g. the completeness of the 2D cockpit panels (I prefer the 3D views and those are great!).

e.g. the completeness of the 2D cockpit panels

That has been beat over the head so many times I am not surprised any threads of those types get deleted. PMDG explained their position quite clearly on the matter. It is their product and they can design it as they see fit. Each company has a different approach, if you do not like PMDG's Approach you can head over to the IFLY Camp.

Herman, I certainly believe that you have missed the point. I surely support what you are quoting - it was Tom Allensworth recently writing this by deleting the one(!) related posting in another thread. This shows that it would have been fully sufficient to delete the related contribution(s) - which wasn't mine - and not the complete thread. It had been a quite lively and sometimes controversial discussion but a company like PMDG having such a great product like the NGX should stand above that even if not all comments have been suitable (probably). By the way, an AVSIM admin explained in his answer to my mail that PMDG was responsible for the related erasure.

I guess I did miss your point. Did you get a satisfactory answer?

It is normally Forum practice, that a MOD explains the reason why they remove a post -- if only to educate the posters why certain posts are not acceptable. If the reasons are not explained to the poster, how can posters know why the post was removed, and not make the same mistakes again.

I have a couple of conflicting opinions about that statement. First, who defines "normal"? We try to do that as is appropriate. However, the AVSIM Mods are frequently put in the position of having to remove a topic or message as quickly as possible due to its inflammatory nature, and they do not have the luxury of the niceties of explaining squat. If you are a user who has had a message removed, my suggestion is that you PM one of the Mods and ask why. By doing that, you address the issue directly and will get a direct answer, instead of a question lingering in the forums unanswered and generating more turmoil.

Example. The Post recently Removed for copyright reasons, by Tom ( with explanation why )

I will take this opportunity to remind everyone that violations of copyright are a banning offense. It is very prominently mentioned in our Terms of Use. Quoting a sentence or two from an article (no matter its source, author, etc.) is allowed within the definition of "fair use". Wholesale poaching of an entire article is NOT fair use and it will get you booted real quick. And not to put too fine a point on it, if someone is going to hold anyone accountable for copyright violation of their works, it will be AVSIM, not PMDG or anyone else. So, needless to say, we are VERY sensitive to a user violating copyrights.

That being said, AVSIM does have a technical issue with their forum, in that sometimes TOPICS stop listing for a period of time, so it might look as if sometimes your posted has been deleted, This is seldom the case, You can normally find your post if you do a search on some of the unique words you remember using in the post, Some time later, the Topic will magically re-appear. .... Happens a lot ... Also, remember this is PMDG's FORUM -- it's up to them how they Moderate it, ( within the Rules and Guidelines of it being an Avism Forum.) ( Many might consider that a litte Forum "Pruning" would be a good thing !!!)

That's the first I have heard we have issues with "topics stop listing". Our forums are so busy, and PMDG's lead the charge in that respect, that topics get rapidly relegated to later pages. If a message is truly missing, it has been removed. That isn't a technical issue; its an irate Mod. And, you are correct; this is PMDG's forum. Their rules can be more restrictive than ours, or the same; example, PMDG requires signatures in their forum. We do not elsewhere. Their rules cannot be less restrictive. So, if we see a message ANYWHERE on our forums, that in our opinion violates AVSIM's Terms of Use, it gets appropriate handling (and in the case of PMDG, if it hasn't already been dealt with by Rob, Ryan or the others on the PMDG team). And... finally, what do you mean by "forum pruning"? There are numerous definitions of that word; please explain.

I have a couple of conflicting opinions about that statement. First, who defines "normal"? We try to do that as is appropriate. However, the AVSIM Mods are frequently put in the position of having to remove a topic or message as quickly as possible due to its inflammatory nature, and they do not have the luxury of the niceties of explaining squat. If you are a user who has had a message removed, my suggestion is that you PM one of the Mods and ask why. By doing that, you address the issue directly and will get a direct answer, instead of a question lingering in the forums unanswered and generating more turmoil.

Hello Tom, It seems that I can answer to your first statement as I obviously addressed the wrong admin first (one of AVSIM's guys) - behind the curtain. I still have the tread in my contribution list (I think I was writing just one comment out of nearly 80) and I wanted to read after a while how it developed which was impossible because the thread had been blocked meanwhile. You may find the mail exchange quoted. As far as I am following up the forum(s) here there was one "abnormal" observation as there was - in my opinion - an absolutely unnecessary and quite exited debate based on a German text translated by using Google Translator leading obviously to misinterpretations that even soured the atmosphere after some people being able to understand the original language tried to explain the content. For me the OP of this specific tread never got the idea when posting the link that somebody could even think that the comparison of PMDG's NGX to an other product could end in unfavourable conclusions for PMDG (at least I didn't). It was my understanding of an open debate and the idea that a wrong decision base might have been the reason to block the related thread that triggered me to open this thread. Please let me conclude this way: 1. PMDG can be proud on the 737 NGX as it is in my opinion the most complex and best aircraft add-on ever being published for MS's flight simulators. I'm a satisfied user!!!2.Complex software includes errors - always - and not every contribution in this forum is arising because of user errors and misconfigured systems.3. It it obvious that PMDG's people are working hard to solve the problems4. There is no reason to react thin-skinned even to comparisons where the conclusion mentions the observable problems (at least for some users) As far as I'm concerned I will not react any more. Let us bury this tread.