Since MSFS 2004 was released, many words have been written about a patch for FS 2004. But I haven't seen any comment from FS 2004 developers.It's usual that every new version of a product is better than the former version. So every fan of Flight Simulator hopes that every new release of FS will be better than the before version.Of course, nothing is perfect and also everybody can expect that there will be bugs and faults in the new features of the software, but not in the old features. But it's good practice from the producer to make an effort to eliminate that bugs, in this case, with a patch that correct them. This means that the customer is the most important thing for the producer.In the case of MSFS, how can we be sure that don

Hi eacevedo,Welcome to our world :)I don't wish to discourage you in any way but I thought I should put you out of your misery. The plain fact is that this topic has been thrashed out on numerous occasions before. It is likely, therefore, that you won't receive much response from the community as I believe we are all sick to death of hearing this raised with almost monotonous regularity. It's not that we don't agree with the substance of your argument, rather it's more a realization that we have been endlessly flogging the proverbial dead horse.I respectfully suggest you run a search for previous discussions on this issue. Keywords like 'Patch', 'FS2004', 'FS2k2' or 'FS9' should probably yield results.Mike :-wave

there we go again...Maybe if customers got a better understanding of the meaning of the word 'patch' and when one is issued (and under customers I include the majority of FS addon creators as they typically don't originate in the software industry either) there would be no constant screaming and whining about patches and Microsoft not serving the customer.Fact is that there are NO critical problems with the product. In fact very few customers have problems serious enough that the product is not usable inside the design specifications and those can usually get a refund or part exchange from their reseller.Therefore there is no need for a patch which is an update specifically meant to address ONLY those critical issues which make the product unusable according to the design specifications to the majority of users.There is still the possibility of a service pack to fix minor issues and maybe provide enhanced functionality but I doubt the programmers at Microsoft are very motivated to produce one of those when they read their work being ripped to shreds about faults which aren't even there or which are blown way out of proportion, these flames often going as far as insulting the people directly.I know that if MY customers were to talk like that and I found out I'd not be inclined to give them anything at all. If I were a company or independent developer I'd seriously consider stopping development of the product and if part of a team without the power to make that decision I'd certainly not be motivated to support those customers.

>Fact is that there are NO critical problems with the product.Seasonal CTDReboots for no reasonCrashes when exitingCrashes when switching viewsCrashes on initial positioningLooks like a semi "critical" list to me and many others experiencing them on a regular basis.Chris

Well I for one, and i suspect many others, doesnt have those exact problems you mention.If every single person in here and who bought the sim had it, certainly that would bring about a generec fix in for of a patch im sure.If only a (resonably) few people have it, its most likely other things causing it such as hardware or other installed software.To be fair to your argument, Chris, I dont recall ever having a problem flying in FS2000 pre-patch and since that yielded a patch file anyway, heck who knows :D

haha no prob... I know alot of people aren't experiencing the problems, I've pretty well tried anything and everything for drivers etc... Just the other day I was doing a flight from HNL to YVR. I pressed the "9" keypad to look out the window, and my whole computer rebooted!! Dunno what caused it... drivers are all upto date, and I have no conflicts...I've learned to live with it I guess

Like I said, a small group may have problems but the vast majority does not.I've never had FS crash on me where FS itself was at fault, and very few times overall (2-3 times, all when having several external programs running influencing it directly or indirectly and switching back and forth between them constantly).Most likely your hardware overheated or something like that, or you have something running in the background that's not fully stable.With millions of instances running around the world, most on disparate combinations of hardware and software, and many with an everchanging array of plugins installed many of which are of questionable stability themselves it's a tribute to the creators of FS2004 that there aren't far more problems.

I never had problems with many other programs and games, which were patched still ... take, for example, Janes F-15 and Longbow II - they released updates for both games which ADDED direct3d HW accelleration at the time. Other game studies have added e.g. multiplayer support in their games, I'm not speaking of the bug fixes that were taken for granted here. I don't see why MS can't fix just ONE of the teenie-weenie but nerve-robbing bugs in FS...But I guess this has been discussed long enough.-Daniel

>Like I said, a small group may have problems but the vast>majority does not.>>I've never had FS crash on me where FS itself was at fault,>and very few times overall (2-3 times, all when having several>external programs running influencing it directly or>indirectly and switching back and forth between them>constantly).>>Most likely your hardware overheated or something like that,>or you have something running in the background that's not>fully stable.>>With millions of instances running around the world, most on>disparate combinations of hardware and software, and many with>an everchanging array of plugins installed many of which are>of questionable stability themselves it's a tribute to the>creators of FS2004 that there aren't far more problems.Jetwing, A very respected member of the FS Community, has proved beyond doubt, that with a brand new Install of Windows with a plain copy of FS2004 and NO ADDONS it will crash due to the seasonal bug. Now I dont know what you call a bug, but I dam well call that a bug. As a result the only way to fix it is to have either your airports look like FS98 or remove all the lovely FS2004 ADDED texture blanding on roads and rivers etc. Which I think is crazy as we are going back to FS2002 graphics. Why bother Upgrading????How can you continue your jibe that FS2004 has no bugs. We are not complaing for the fact that ATC remains largley unchanged apart the obvious, but still vectors you in a nost crazy way, or that AI traffic still seem to think that trying to land in 2's is funny.No we are complaing becuase we are sick to death with flying for 6-8 hours only to have your PC rebooted.Whilst MS dont have to worry about our addons, but they have provided an SDK for exactly that reason. Minus Freeware and payware FS would become quite boaring, and MS know that, hence the wondefull open architecture and SDK's.No one in their right mind can condem MS, they provide a most wonderfull Sim and the whole world textured and the like. But..... the seasonal CTD is an appauling fault and it should be Fixed. Now I challenge you to hunt down the files, of which I cant remember where to get them from, and try em out. If your PC does not crash then I want your scenery CFG and terrain CFG.Im sure someone here will provide you a link.Im not trying to make a stink here, but this is a serious issue.I will be happy to converse with you again after you have provided your results.Jason

Well I agree, there are annoying problems with FS9, the ATC, bridges in wrong places...heck I can only see the lites at nite on the Confederation Bridge, NB-PEI Canada..that is how I know it is there. In the daytime ,I have yet to see it?? Do not know why? Complete shutdown of FS9 while in flight has happened.And there are more problems as mentioned.But I never had any Problems with MAX payne for an install and play game that requires a healthy system...Why would FS 9 be ridden with so many small probelms..and they are there! Just my opinion!! :)MB

"Now I challenge you to hunt down the files, of which I cant remember where to get them from, and try em out. If your PC does not crash then I want your scenery CFG and terrain CFG."Allow me to help, Jason.rhumbaflappy's post #3 here has a zip attachment: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ng_type=search:And his post #19 here: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...e=&topic_page=2Both are guaranteed to trigger a CTD.Regards,

I don't think a game/sim exists that doesn't have any "bugs." The question for developers is "does the bug affect enough of our customers to make it worth our while devoting resources and man hours to working on a patch for it?" You have to remember that the "hardcore" flightsim community - as knowledgable and devoted as it is - still represents a tiny proportion of the number of people who bought FS9. If two million people buy it and only a few dozen people on a forum like this experience this issue, well, you get my point. I personally have had not a single ctd in the months I've been running the sim - not one. Now I haven't run any of the prearranged ctd scenarios and I'm sure if I did, I'd ctd. But most of the people who bought the sim likely don't even know this forum exists and they certainly haven't run the ctd examples either. YOu gotta remember the bean counters at MS are looking at the bare numbers - "how many sold? How many complaints? That's all, Awesome...patch? what patch?"

>I don't think a game/sim exists that doesn't have any "bugs."> The question for developers is "does the bug affect enough of>our customers to make it worth our while devoting resources>and man hours to working on a patch for it?" You have to>remember that the "hardcore" flightsim community - as>knowledgable and devoted as it is - still represents a tiny>proportion of the number of people who bought FS9. If two>million people buy it and only a few dozen people on a forum>like this experience this issue, well, you get my point. I>personally have had not a single ctd in the months I've been>running the sim - not one. Now I haven't run any of the>prearranged ctd scenarios and I'm sure if I did, I'd ctd. But>most of the people who bought the sim likely don't even know>this forum exists and they certainly haven't run the ctd>examples either. YOu gotta remember the bean counters at MS>are looking at the bare numbers - "how many sold? How many>complaints? That's all, Awesome...patch? what patch?">>Prcisley... What makes us "HardCore" the fact that we are on AVSIM?. Now get this.. How many people bought FS2004, and dont know about AVSIM (even though its mention in the FS Manual). Imagine all the Guys n Gals out there getting a CTD and thinking "oh Hell my PC Is at fault", when in fact it is the software!!! Not to mention that when FS2006 arrives thay may very well say, "FS dont work on my system so I aint buying it"MS need to fix this, MS need to stop hiding behind the we dont talk in forums becuase Important Information gets lost with all the posts, Have they never heard of Sticky Posts????Simple fact is FS is fast becomming a put it out and forget about it. Ok Fine ill pay for bugs that continue from FS2002 to FS 2006, but I wont put up with CTD after 8-10 hours of light.I simply Love FS, I get some much fun out of it, Plus its turned me in to a Seceret Agent, hiding the Credit Card Bills for add-ons.MS MUST and SHOULD Obey the community when it its plainly obvious that the software is faulty.Another thing they ought to look is being able to UPgrade your Instllation of FS, say from 2004 - 2006. And why not? You can upgrade from Win98 to XP!!!Come on MS we adore your products, now put a patch out and stop telling us our drivers need updating.JasonPS Excuse Spelling (lunch Break is nearly over)

>"Now I challenge you to hunt down the files, of which I cant>remember where to get them from, and try em out. If your PC>does not crash then I want your scenery CFG and terrain CFG.">>Allow me to help, Jason.>>rhumbaflappy's post #3 here has a zip attachment:>http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ng_type=search:>>And his post #19 here:>http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...e=&topic_page=2>>Both are guaranteed to trigger a CTD.>>Regards,>> >You the Man Greg.Thanks.Now jwenting make sure you come back with your HONEST Findings :)Jason

Putting policeman's hat on...Ahem, please limit your signature to one graphic per our policies, and clean up the language. There is no need for it, and there are countless young folk reading these forums that I frankly feel some responsibility to. Clean it up.