maybe fs9 does have bugs. i just havent seen any yet(300+ hrs).don

Well just an update guys.I Installed a copy of FS2004 on a second PC:No addons and this is a very stable PC.CTD'S @Coast of New found landSionUk Coast of DoverSouth of the white house Washington DClots around KSFO2 or 3 areas around the AlpsLIPZCrashing at 77% when loading weather, unless you choose clear all weather.Also CTDs when calling up the terrain on the gps, or loking at the map.Now Im not moaning for moaning sakes, but this should be addressed. Who knows it might find its way into FS2006.Again this proves that its not an isolated error.Adding the community created fixes... No more problems, but FS2000 style graphics either on roads/rivers ETC or FS98 style airports.Jason

That is amazing. Theres got to be something wrong there. I just don't know how its possible for anyone to experience that many ctd issues in such a short period of time without there being some sort of hardware issue involved. Please understand, I'm not trying to cuase trouble or an argument, I'm just trying to figure out how my experience could be so incredibly different from yours. Are those areas you mention previously known to cuase ctd's? I mean I've been flying around in this sim for months now just loading up different random areas and cruising around and I have yet to experience a single ctd anywhere. I've also never had a ctd when downloading RW weather.

Had my first CTD today in terms of just flying doing nothing else and puf gone to desktop. :-newburnIt was in the southern alp region to be exact about 100 nm north from Nice/Cote de Azur, flight plan was Toulouse - Nice.Now if this happens to everyone who flies in these kinda areas, surely the "we dont need a patch"-people cant continue to argue that you can just "fly elsewhere" or avoid those areas.If alot more of these places exist we'll all end up limited to flying in the outskirts of a few "safe" areas.Heck, I can go buy FlyII for that!P.S. The GPS call up terrain CTD i've had also, but seemed to happen only when I had that panel as texture=1 tweak in teh fs9.cfg.

same here only i spend at least 50% of my time around ksfo and have had zero ctds in 300+ hrs running real weather and generated weather.don

Well I guess it could be a harware problem, But its funny that as soon as I put in thgw workaround no more problems.TMy main PC has a Radeon 9700 pro, my other PC has a Geeforce 5600 FX. Still crashes on both.I have left 3D mark latest version in a loop for over 4 hours not a single crash.It is defeintly a problem somewhere. There are possibilites wher I can fly to an area that gave me a CTD without one happening, but most of the time a CTD will occur in said aeras without the fixes.Weird, but I still think its a scenery bugJason

"I mean I've been flying around in this sim for months now just loading up different random areas and cruising around and I have yet to experience a single ctd anywhere."If his CTD's are the seasonal ones, they are NOT HARDWARE RELATED. Congrats that you fly in places where it doesn't apply, and I've been just as lucky. Then again, I fly in places that tend to be last on the list of suspect locations--the MidWest, California, Arizona. There was a situation posted here a while back. Load it up and see if you can avoid a CTD (I believe your texture settings need to be maxed in MSFS for it to work right). I have sometimes had a CTD loading real weather, but I discount that as a sim issue, since one is downloading data and data can get trashed and cause issues. OTH, the sim should protect against that and reject bad data, but that probably would make the process many times as long as it is now. I also saw Real Weather CTD's sometimes in FS2000 and FS2002 as well, but I don't normally use real weather anyway--I prefer to set it up myself as I feel I can make the sky a bit prettier "my way" :)The seasonal CTD seems to require one or more of these elements:~An area where snow gives way to standard ground cover.~An area with mountain Terrain~Possibly an airport in the region where the CTD happensThe problem with the user based fix is not everyone has applied it, and it requires enough skill and attention to detail that I feel many users can't apply it or apply it correctly.I don't know how many times it has to be said in this thread though--just because WE don't get CTD's doesn't mean it's the other user's system. More likely, it's either because of when and where we fly vs. when and where they fly, or because we've applied the fixes suggested that resolve most of the seasonal CTD's.Edit: I need to quickly add though that I've never received a CTD around KSFO.... I fly often around KSFO, perhaps half the time like another user noted. And since my default flight starts up at KSFO, all my A/C design takes place in that area...

Hi, For those have missed the CTD seasonal fix, The true 100% replicable for each system fs2004 CTD seasonal *Type* on few specific area was fixed before.I guess all this problems about this ctd was a bad choice and do not worth at all for the *almost non noticable* under the rivers and road texture, it was a better choice to leave it like fs2002 style and prevent the problems. http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=searchTERRAIN.CFG file in the FS9 folder, open it in Notepad and replace BOTH MaskClassMap=1 AND MaskClassMap=3 to MaskClassMap=0. Save the file and re-start FS.And for those import 3rd party landclass install Joachim's fix and textures.Many users will never have this CTD after switching to "2006" because they never fly those area, others always fly these area and will have the ctd. Same thing for the autogen, set the autogen to full right and fly these dense specific area will have problems etc. Many user never set autogen to full slider right and never fly these specific area that's cause the fps drop, others will rename the xml and set to full slider to right etc. Overcast Clouds was removed for frame rate as explaned in the learning center.Conclusion nobody force any users to buy any Flight Sim product, it's your decision. Nobody force users to buy 500 or 1000$ of 3rd party addons and get upset with the product. Keep you in mind for the future, any Flight Simulator product will always be unfinished from feature, realims, accuracy and anomalies with or without patch, see the Fs/Cfs past history with/without patch. There will be always problems on many area, if it is not performance, it's another things, feature, graphics etc and the list will be endless for each version. Any product will be outdated from 1 or 2 years because of the new graphics technologie each years and the improvement on feature.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

Hi AllI've ignored the forum for a couple of weeks trying to concentrate just on flying. I'm amazed to see this thread, I like the second poster had gotten completely fed up with the constant navel gazing that everybody seems to be into.But I just had to respond with a few lines.The plain facts are and they have been stated a million times already, or so it seems, are this.Microsoft are producing a product that has to satisfy at least a million customers world wide, (I suspect more copies than that have been sold but have no true data) with quite possibly a comensurate number of PC's running vastly different setups. So the development teams get together and try to figure out what might happen on all the possible variable machines.That task alone has to take some brain power, and that is before they have submitted the first lot of code. Then the beta testers get hold of it, they report the obvious bugs. Several builds later and the beta testers and gameplayer testers are still coming up with bugs.18 months in to production they are close to the end of testing but they still have some critical bugs, they get these sorted out, they havent thought about packaging, distribution, advertising or any of those other things. Although the Discovery Channel wants to make a tie in with the Century of Flight buzz thats going on.Finally they think they have the finished product and realease. What happens then the most critical of testers in the world go and buy the product and because you get a microsecond stutter on landing you all scream and shout. Come on guys wake up.Did anybody out there wait and wait for LOMAC, hell when that came out it had major bugs and I mean bugs, and that sucker was in development for at least 4 years and only covers a small area of the black sea.Most of us in here really don't know were born, we have a product that IMHO is the best in the flight simulating world straight out of the box.And thats my 10 pence worth.Nuff SaidWycliffeEGFF Cardiff Wales.

"If his CTD's are the seasonal ones, they are NOT HARDWARE RELATED. Congrats that you fly in places where it doesn't apply, and I've been just as lucky. Then again, I fly in places that tend to be last on the list of suspect locations--the MidWest, California, Arizona."Yeah, thats why I asked if those are areas known to cuase problems. I mean I don't doubt the existence of the seasonal ctd issue so of course it won't matter what system you install FS9 on, if you go specifically to those known problem areas you'll ctd. But if thats the case, then I go back to what I said before - how many people (including people who don't frequent these forums at all) are experiencing the seasonal ctd issue without specifically going out looking for it at known trouble spots? If MS doesn't hear from a pretty significant number of users (probably in the thousands given the number of units of FS9 they sell) all having the same problem, they aren't going to worry much about a patch for the issue. The point I was making was that I was amazed that one person (myself) could install FS9, fly it for months and not experience a single ctd (that couldn't be traced to an add-on recently installed), and someone else could install it and hit 8 or ten ctd's within hours of installation (without going to specific problem areas). I mean, if its a bug in the code, you'd think many many more people would be complaining since the .exe code is the one (and probably only) thing about FS9 we all have in common...

Chris, this fix you mention about the terrain.cfg file, is it ALL MaskClassMap=1 & 3 inside it that should be changed to =0 ?

I have read this ENTIRE thread and felt I had to chime in.This whole issue is really simple and clear cut. MS's silence on the whole thing is deafening. This sim while immensely enjoyable (due to add-ons) has some definite issues with advertised features. IMHO a patch is far overdue. Credible sources far more knowledgable than I have confirmed several crashing issues. This alone is very good reason for a patch. My few simple (but huge examples) issues also warrant immediate attention due to failure to comply with what most would consider "showstopping" bugs.1. Seasonal CTD repeatable, confirmed bug.2. Failure of the weather engine to provide the following: a. smoothly transitioning form one area of weather to another. (repeatable) b. Wind generation and out of control wind change bug.(repeatable) c. Failure of wx engine to provide ANYTHING resembling overcast conditions. (repeatable) d. Autogen visibility distance bug (also known as xml fix bug) (repeatable) e. Visibility layer bug when at low altitudes(sea level)3. ATC vectoring bug (repeatable) I could probably come up with more. Now to be fair MS has done an outstanding job overall, a decent improvement in the sim, but the failure comes with the non-functional(read broke) areas of the sim which are touted as "improvements". It's only an improvement if it works. These are the areas which desperately need a patch. Having been involved with software development(sims in general) I know there are written documents which address how features and performance are supposed to work. IMHO they have not fuflilled the requirements of these design documents in general. Anyone from MS care to comment? :) These are my reasons for wondering where is the patch. It's overdue and its most definitely warranted. That or next time don't promise us the moon when you start advertising the next version.Hornit

> I have read this ENTIRE thread and felt I had to chime in.>>This whole issue is really simple and clear cut. MS's silence>on the whole thing is deafening.>> This sim while immensely enjoyable (due to add-ons) has some>definite issues with advertised features.>> IMHO a patch is far overdue. Credible sources far more>knowledgable than I have confirmed several crashing issues.>This alone is very good reason for a patch.>> My few simple (but huge examples) issues also warrant>immediate attention due to failure to comply with what most>would consider "showstopping" bugs.>>1. Seasonal CTD repeatable, confirmed bug.>>2. Failure of the weather engine to provide the following:>> a. smoothly transitioning form one area of weather to>another.> (repeatable)> b. Wind generation and out of control wind change>bug.(repeatable)> c. Failure of wx engine to provide ANYTHING resembling>overcast> conditions. (repeatable)> d. Autogen visibility distance bug (also known as xml fix>bug)> (repeatable)> e. Visibility layer bug when at low altitudes(sea level)>>3. ATC vectoring bug (repeatable)>>> I could probably come up with more. Now to be fair MS has>done an outstanding job overall, a decent improvement in the>sim, but the failure comes with the non-functional(read broke)>areas of the sim which are touted as "improvements". It's only>an improvement if it works.>> These are the areas which desperately need a patch. Having>been involved with software development(sims in general) I>know there are written documents which address how features>and performance are supposed to work. IMHO they have not>fuflilled the requirements of these design documents in>general. Anyone from MS care to comment? :)>> These are my reasons for wondering where is the patch. It's>overdue and its most definitely warranted. That or next time>don't promise us the moon when you start advertising the next>version.>>Hornit>>>>At last! A sensible and distinct written post about the bugs and thus the need of a patch.Thanks Hornit!/Jan Bergwall

I am sorry that you feel that these bugs are show stoppers. Personally I find work arounds for almost everyone you mention, and several of the ones you mention I have never reproduced.The seasonal CTD bug is easy to avoid, since most of the seasonal CTD's are during season "transisions" Thus if I move the season to one of the 4 days that are represented by "Spring Summer Winter or Fall" in the season selector I don't get the bug.Of course, I am not actively looking.My point to you is would you rather have Microsoft working on the next version of FS2006 or a patch.The passioned cry of most in this community to have a new sim every couple of years is deafening.Personally I would rather have them put their effort on the next version.Pro Pilot 99 had a known issue in which a "WALL" existed That ran across the south through GA, AL, MS, LA, and parts of TX.If you crossed the line going in a specific direction (It was either north or south, can't remember) and had clouds on. You CTD. Going the opposite way, no crash.PP99 fans simply noted it and avoided flight plans that would introduce it. Or turned off clouds going that way.Was it ideal? No. But it was no way a show stopper either.I don't care if folks have issues with the software, but to personally attack Microsoft Employees, friends of mine, accusing them of "not caring" because your issue has not been resolved in the manner you expect (And I am speaking to the community here, not just a single poster) really gets me upset.And considering the amazing advances that MS has provided to Flight Simulators over the years, it rings kind of hollow to call them uncaring after all these years.To request a patch is not bashing. To slam Microsoft workers because you didn't get what you wanted, is bashing.

Once again I note that the simple fact that a reproducable bug is found in the software doesn't instantly mean MS is going to (or obligated to) release a patch for it. Its safe to say that virtually every single simulation released in the long history of PC simulation software has had bugs and many of those were never resolved by a patch. Falcon 3 had bugs. Falcon 4 had many bugs. Grand Prix legends has them and so does NR2k3. These are incredibly complex pieces of software and simply put, they will never be perfect. The people at MS aren't going to respond to an issue unless it is shown to be occurring to enough people that they simply can't avoid responding. The fact that 10 or 12 (or 20 or 30) people on these forums might have experienced the seasonal ctd issue (without actively looking for it) isn't going to cuase them much concern. They know we (meaning those of us who might be characterised as "hardcore" flightsimers) are putting in far far more hours than the average joe who buys MSFS from Walmart so he can load it on his new PC and go "wow" (which sadly represents probably better than 90% of the folks who buy the sim). If only a handful of us are having an issue, MS is simply going to say "hey, if hardly anyone in the serious sim community is having the problem, its likely not an issue that needs much consideration" becuase they know that we're likely to be the only people who even encounter the issue. What it comes down to is this - if theres enough of a bru-ha-ha about something, MS will likely respond. So far their probably hasn't been...