Ok guys, I hold up my hand.. I'm a nonk Although simming for some time, it's only been since release of the NGX that I have really got into things seriously. Prior to the NGX most of my flying was GA using VFR, and so SIDS and STARS is something I have never previously encountered. OK, so now I have my excuses out of the way, I'd like some help with these annoying elements of flight planning. This week I purchased FSCommander 9, with the hope that it would simplify my flight planning and allow me to import it directly to the NGX CDU, which it does. However, since getting the NGX I still cannot get my head around inputting the SIDS and STARS. Last night I decided to sit down and really try to get my head around things. So, into FSC I made a flightplan including the relevent SIDS and STARS from EGCC to EGGD. the route showed up nicely in FSX and I could see my approach and landing, just what I want I thought. I saved the file and opened it in co routes and bingo it was there on the CDU. The SID looked fine, but when it came to the STAR the route ended directly at right angles in the centre of the runway! So although the SID in FSC took a nice path, ligning up with runway 9, there was no way I could find a way of having a route that followed the FSX route?? There is no doubt something that I am doing wrong and I'd be ecstatic if I could get my head around this issue and be able to input realsitic routes. Another problem I found was being unable to delete a discontinuity. Each time I clicked the relevent LSKs and hit execute, the small boxes simply lit up and remained where they were! Any advice fellas, greatly received, thanks.

Ok guys, I hold up my hand.. I'm a nonk Although simming for some time, it's only been since release of the NGX that I have really got into things seriously. Prior to the NGX most of my flying was GA using VFR, and so SIDS and STARS is something I have never previously encountered. OK, so now I have my excuses out of the way, I'd like some help with these annoying elements of flight planning. This week I purchased FSCommander 9, with the hope that it would simplify my flight planning and allow me to import it directly to the NGX CDU, which it does. However, since getting the NGX I still cannot get my head around inputting the SIDS and STARS. Last night I decided to sit down and really try to get my head around things. So, into FSC I made a flightplan including the relevent SIDS and STARS from EGCC to EGGD. the route showed up nicely in FSX and I could see my approach and landing, just what I want I thought. I saved the file and opened it in co routes and bingo it was there on the CDU. The SID looked fine, but when it came to the STAR the route ended directly at right angles in the centre of the runway! So although the SID in FSC took a nice path, ligning up with runway 9, there was no way I could find a way of having a route that followed the FSX route?? There is no doubt something that I am doing wrong and I'd be ecstatic if I could get my head around this issue and be able to input realsitic routes. Another problem I found was being unable to delete a discontinuity. Each time I clicked the relevent LSKs and hit execute, the small boxes simply lit up and remained where they were! Any advice fellas, greatly received, thanks.

This probably wont help you in this case but will probably help you in how to plan your sid and stars approaches one of the best vids explaining on how to plan your routes think there 4 parts

This probably wont help you in this case but will probably help you in how to plan your sid and stars approaches one of the best vids explaining on how to plan your routes think there 4 parts

Thanks Pete, appreciated.

First. SIDs and STARs can be runway dependent.Second, some may state they require ATC vectors and stop at a point some 20 to 30 nm out from destination.STARs can end at a transition point called the IAF (Initial Approach Fix) that is the entry to an IAP (published final approach procedure or Instrument Approach Procedure). FSC uses Navigraph data for terminal procedures. I don't know how it handles the final approach procedure.On the DEP/ARR page of the FMC you get to pick the STAR plus the IAP type such as runwaynn ILS which would contain that portion. However some of the Navigraph terminal procedures supplied for your FMC just stop at where vectoring is expected and then no IAF path exists to the IAP because you could be erxpected to be on the MCP to follow ATC issued vectors.I use a different planner thart uses Navigraph as well and I have seen this problem of no FMC guidance between the end of the STAR and entry to final.For UK airports try looking at the plates at:http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php.htmlpicking the first selection AIPhttp://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=165&Itemid=3.htmlThen on the left click aerodrome specifichttp://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=6&Itemid=13.htmlIn this case select EGDDhttp://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=36&Itemid=85.htmlThe list of charts appears and click on the one you want on the left.I chose for illustration STAR BRI-1B. which opened:http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-901D3C97008878679A99B7D12DF8ECDA/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGGD_7-2_en_2010-04-08.pdfThis terminates at the BRISTOL BRI NDB. In this case for runway 9 ILS:http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-901D3C97008878679A99B7D12DF8ECDA/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGGD_8-1_en_2010-05-06.pdfit shows that the IAF is the BRI NDB and then you track in outbound for a procedure turn inbound to get on the ILS for runway 9.In this case it is complete.Note that these STARS are arrival direction bound and then the termination here is the IAF for you selected runway procedure.If this was a STAR that did not take you to the IAF that would be indicated on a chart note.Here the runway 27 ILS also uses BRI as the IAF. The procedure turns just go in the opposite direction.I looked at another STAR arriving from the north and it goes to BRI with that 90 degree turn into the procedure turn outbound. So what you saw with that 90 degree turn is correct but you do have legally some area to play with on the intial turn here.Note that those procedures give you a choice of two procedure turns in each direction. These are based on aircraft performance turning radius which is a function of the slowest safe maneuvering speed for this type of approach. CAT A and B are the smaller aircraft and Cat C and D are the larger aircraft. The 737NGX would fall into the latter categories. This would have to be a handflown approach and it might be possible that airline policy would prohibit any airport that requires a procedure turn. It does happen though.For a wider selection of charts for the European Union members this site offers a free registration:http://ead-website.ead-it.com/publicuser/public/pu/login.jspIt is a bit more complicated to use once you get to the query screen. After your registration is confirmed via e-mail and you log in, just agree to the pop-up notice. Then select Enter Applications. Select [AIP]. A blank query form comes up with an error mesage.Slect Authority (like UK), CIVIL type, AIP type Charts, Part AD for airport data, then click Search. And index will come up for all airports in that jurisdiction (EG pulled up 21 pages of indexes). They are in alphabetical order by ICAO so you can estimate the page picking it from the dropdown to get near your list. EGGD starts on page 5. Click on the left .pdf list to get the chart of interest. Since FSC already gave you the SID pull down that chart and then get the runway charts and airport diagram. If you want get parking charts and so forth. After each chart opens in Acrobat just save it to a file. Set up a folder for charts and under it a folder for each airport in which you store those .pdfs.Now, the actual AIS chart .pdf links are AIRAC dependent so they can become invalid. That's why I described the menu structure.You need to look at the SID and STAR charts followed by the runway IAP charts to see the relationship for how they join. The STARs take you from an enroute airway to the IAF of an IAP. A SID takes you from the runway to your desired airway. Be sure to check the notes on the charts for procedure such as when taking vectors is required.Finally, one more headache. The frequencies of navaids noted on current charts may not match the ones coded into FS scenery. The same could happen in your FMC guided by current AIRAC data. So to get the FS tuning data you might have to open up the scenery in an airport editing application. I don't use the FS Planner but right clicking on an airport in the map view should provide the scenery tuning data. Flight sim Commander pulls it data from AIRACS from what I see so unless it gets its navaid frequencies pulled from your scenery, there could be a tuning mismatch.I'm sure others will have comments :)

Hey Ron, your reply went beyond the realms of helpfulness, thanks very much for such a full explanation. There is a lot of information there that I will go through, thanks again.