Yes, as in the approach end of the intended runway..Same deal....

You can only follow a specific radial to the RWY TDZ iff the airport has a VOR on site

.... it doesn't have to be an on site VOR ... Even many published VOR approaches use VORs tens of miles away from the airport.

it doesn't have to be an on site VOR ... Even many published VOR approaches use VORs tens of miles away from the airport.

Yes, of course! The VOR could be anywhere along the RWY centerline. Should have seen that, thanks for pointing it out.Cheers,- jahman.

You're welcome :) .. but it doesn't have to be on ruway centerline either.Maybe I'm mis-understanding the OP's question. From what I read; he wants to flight-plan by radio nav-aid, but does not want to have to manually plot an arrival point from where he'd fly the final approach leg. If that's true, then even a VOR at the field, that a flight-planner would give him, could have him inbound on a radial perpendicular to the runway. He'd have to do some sort of manual plotting.. ie.. choose a radial that has him intersecting runway centerline, far enough from the runway to be able to turn to final... which of course leads me to sugest he just fly whatever published approach is useable, (or incorporate points of it into his fligh-plan).ANYway.. one way or another.. he's gonna have to plot and improvise at some point.. When plotting a VOR radial that would have him near enough runway heading, it need not be a VOR at the field.. Here's an example of a leg he could use flying into KTOL for runway 34.... an actual VOR approach, where the VOR is nearly ten miles from the airport, and nowhere near runway centerline..http://204.108.4.16/...3/00184VD34.PDF

RWY selection is not part of flight planning!Only God can include RWY selection in His flight plan for only He can know the wind direction at the destination at the planned arrival time, at the time the flight plan is filed. (He can, of course, also change wind directions at Will).

That seems to me a form of "throwing the baby out with the bath water". I have to take issue with you there jahman. The reason you stated is precisely why you plan before takeoff.It was always a part of my RW flight planning whether the airport was 7 minutes or 7 hours away.Of course it can change. That is why you study the current charts... the progs... metar trends... the TAFs / AMD (amended forecasts). If something changes that doesn't fit into the forecast at planned arrival time... you want to know that and hence: why... why did it change... what is the change due to? Thunderstorms in the area? CFP (cold front passage) sooner than expected? So what else (what kind of weather) with the windshift do I expect to see now?Heck yeah! I plan on a certain runway (what is currently in use).... that it fits my ability / aircraft ability for crosswind component. I want to know the Runways... lengths / widths, surface type, lighting, obstacles, dplcd thresholds etc... I want to thoroughly brief myself on the facility (hence I will spend some time studying the airport in the AF/D).You plan ahead and take as much "guesswork" out of what you are doing on the ground... then re-evaluate / re-plan / react accordingly during the flight as [email protected]... good... even has a nice midfield entry for a left-hand pattern into Rwy 7... (I kind of wanted to mention VOR circle to lands but seemed he wasn't to interested in something like that right now).

Thanks for the tips.

...It was always a part of my RW flight planning whether the airport was 7 minutes or 7 hours away....

Tjere's two meanings to the term ·flight planning·: You are using ·flight planning· in a wide sense and I fully agree with what you're saying. In my post I was using "flight planning" in a narrow sense limited to creating a route and loading it into the FMC.Cheers,- jahman.

I don't think it has been mentioned that you can easily connect FSC to FSX for inflight monitoring/moving map.It's the only planner I use and never fly without it. I do a lot of navigating via VOR/NDB as I find it quite fun to do and FSC makes it easy.

Thanks everyone for your comments.The motivation for my question above was, suppose I am doing a VFR flight, but need to find my way to the airport using radio navigation. I would then want to do a combination of VOR and NDB to guide myself to a point from where I can do a visual approach. I must admit I'm not sure how this is done in real life, I can't imagine that every VFR pilot flies solely on visual landmarks?

Thanks everyone for your comments.The motivation for my question above was, suppose I am doing a VFR flight, but need to find my way to the airport using radio navigation. I would then want to do a combination of VOR and NDB to guide myself to a point from where I can do a visual approach. I must admit I'm not sure how this is done in real life, I can't imagine that every VFR pilot flies solely on visual landmarks?

That's how I interpreted your original question.. allow me to elaborate:On a VFR flight, you only need to see the airport.. doesn't matter from which direction you're arriving. If it's a towered airport, you contact the tower before entering the airspace, they will tell you how they want you to end up on final.. usually tell you to enter a standard pattern on the leg of that pattern that fits current traffic.. something like: "November-five-seven-four-zero-tango, fly left base for runway 26" .. OR .. "fly right downwind for runway 04" ...At a non-towered airport, you decide how to enter the pattern, based on wind, what you see, and what you've been hearing on CTAF (other pilots coming and going).. then announce those intentions, and execute them.Now, of course if you can't see the airport.. you're flying IMC, under instrument flight rules. ATC will vector you to a point where you can then fly the published, instrument approach.. and if it's an ILS, they'll likely vector you right up to nice ILS intercept.

@Brett...Yes... good... even has a nice midfield entry for a left-hand pattern into Rwy 7... (I kind of wanted to mention VOR circle to lands but seemed he wasn't to interested in something like that right now).

Yeah.. The approach I linked shows the circle-to-land option.. slightly higher MDA, and slightly better visibility, for faster aircraft.. but I think we need to help him with VFR patterns, first. :)

Tjere's two meanings to the term ·flight planning·: You are using ·flight planning· in a wide sense and I fully agree with what you're saying. In my post I was using "flight planning" in a narrow sense limited to creating a route and loading it into the FMC.

Oh jahman... you crack me up. :LMAO:No... I was using "flight planning" in the only "sense" I know... the "flight planning" sense.btw welcome for the other stuff (links) :)

I must admit I'm not sure how this is done in real life, I can't imagine that every VFR pilot flies solely on visual landmarks?

Well... yes they do… Pilotage and Dead Reckoning were the only real tools I had (like so many other pilots from pre-GPS days). There was some discussion of this ("children of the magenta line") in a Hangar Chat thread. Btw… there are even Visual Approaches to major airports (e.g. check out this very well known one: http://naco.faa.gov/...RIVER_VIS19.PDF ).The flight program I was in... we had only pre-approved routes e.g. LAF - IKK - LAF. Most all routes had no navaids that were overflown. So, "pre-Commercial" License, I might use the VOR for a crossing radial to my flight path. Or if I was really concerned (or bored) use two VORs for a position fix... more or less for those "oh shoot I think I am lost" times. VORs or NDBs on the field weren't of too much use... sure let you know you're headed in the right direction, but I would know that already. There was no DME in the aircraft, so you really had to know (roughly) where you were at all times, particularly as the field flying to many times would have an operating Control Tower.The first time I actually flew "VOR to VOR" (Victor airways) was just prior to obtaining my Commercial... I rented a Cherokee 140 from Aretz Airport in Lafayette and flew to St. Louis (Cahokia Downtown-Parks). How sweet that was not to have to depend on pilotage/DR! In fact... it was quite necessary to navigate back "home" that way. I had to delay my departure until stations along my route started reporting 3sm visibility (due to Haze). Since I was navigating back via VORs, visibility was no big deal as far as knowing where I was. "See and Avoid" (Collision Avoidance) was another matter altogether. It was very difficult just to make out the ground near you. You can be legal with 3sm viz VFR, but because of that day, I do not consider it "safe" VFR and never flew 3sm outside the pattern again without an IFR Clearance.So long winded story just to say pilots do learn to fly solely with reference to visual landmarks, and being proficient at it I consider an essential skill. You do not want to be one of those pilots that one day lands at the wrong airport because of pilotage skills (i.e. lack thereof).

but I think we need to help him with VFR patterns, first. :)

"So much to learn... so little time" :(

Rob, thanks for the memories! Having learned to fly in Maine 40 years ago, with very little radar coverage and only a few VOR's, dead reckoning and pilotage were 2 skills that were learned fast. Like you, if we ever had the chance to fly an actual Victor airway, we were in 'hog heaven' ! A lot of the time, IFR literally meant " I follow roads" :-)