Depiction problem - AS2012 and ASE side-by-side comparison

[jes0811 1]

Further investigating the seemingly low density in AS2012 in many cases, I have a simple comparison.I have not changed textures or installed graphics during this test. Both AS2012 and ASE have virtually the same WX Option settings.Started FSX and went to CYWG.CYWG 230100Z 18012KT 10SM BKN031 OVC070 M04/M06 A3009Started AS2012, waited for the Synthesis Complete status, and took screenshot #1AS2012I then closed AS2012, started ASE, verified the metars were the same, and then took screenshot #2ASEAs you can see, screenshot #2 (ASE) has more density/coverage and is generally darker than screenshot #1 (AS2012). When I pan around in AS2012 there are many gaps and clear sky, but ASE is solid. In AS2012 there are only a few cumulus clouds overhead and then a doughnut of clear sky until the background clouds way off in the distance.Here is a side-view from AS2012:AS2012I can't figure out why.Thanks for any help...

[denver69 0]

Jes,I am getting much better results with using extended route coverage in DWC mode. I find I also need to use REX for clouds to get a fuller look. I cant blame AS textures though because it might be a combination of issues. I would like to have just as realistic of a depiction with AS textures but for now I am doing what works best.Good luck

[jes0811 1]

My screenshots were already using Enhanced Route Coverage setting (but it shouldnt matter anyway in this case because I was sitting still at a major airport). I had replicated the settings between ASE and AS2012 as close as possible.

[stabell 0]

how did this problem pass the beta testing, is the big question.

[jes0811 1]

Well, I don't know that this happens everywhere and under all weather conditions, but it just seems that coverage is thinner in general.I'm not upset about it -- we will figure it out ;)

[HiFly 16]

Hi Jason! I took the comparison one step further. I first reloaded default FSX textures and used them for all three tests. My first conclusion comparing AS2012 with ASE as you did was the same: AS2012 for some reason will not create a true overcast or even densely broken but and on climbout the clouds just evaporate. ASE had a much improvement on density BUT nothing compared to manually setting CUSTOM wx directly into FSX. To further elaborate, the textures seem to blend together much tighter thru default FSX than for either ASE or 2012 and only FSX had a true overcast when looking under the plane as I slewed upwards in my test. The best overcast was actually using thick stratus and it produced very dark clouds seen from below. (BTW so that I could run a true test I left the visibiltiy to default). Now the bad news. None of the scenarios would produce a true IMC condition of less than 2000 ft agl overcast. The best by far, of course, was the manual setting. With that method I tested different cloud ceilings from 50ft up to 3000 ft and each time if I slewed the plane upward it would not truly enter cloud until about 4000 ft agl. I could see much lower cloud ceilings in the distance from my aircraft but when I slewed toward them the clouds would recede upward. Apparently this is a deliberate programming by FSX to make it easy to use for an unsophisticated target market whose main attraction (other than pretending to be a pilot) was the quality of the scenery textures. (Can't see scenery in hard IMC!) In all three tests the resulting metars would report had overcast but FSX depiction never really matched. As far as AS2012 is concerned those reporting that they are able to get solid overcast (and it is possible to seem so from above at times) may be using REX cloud textures which I think may have denser cloud cover. I don't own REX so not sure. I asked Damian why he can't design a SOLID cloud texture to be used for overcast instead of the scattered textures that are presented as only options in AS2012. Hve not heard back but I know that many of us have been approaching him on the overcast problem. No matter how the wx engine combines the AS2012 textures they will never produce a true solid DECK of clouds as in RW because the texture files themselves have sections of blue sky inbedded within them! The fact that none of the scenarios could produce a true LOW overcast appears, however, to be purely an FSX issue that would take some real good programming workarounds for some 3rd party developer in order to overcome. There may just not be enough of us hard-core types to make it commercially profitable. In the meantime we will make do with what we have and just use lower visibility settings to compensate. I have gone back to ASE until AS2012 can be fixed or upgraded and I will continue to use manually tweaking if necessary for true IMC approaches.Merry Christmas, all!

[jes0811 1]

However, I would still expect AS2012 to at the very least match ASE. It should be better than ASE, not worse.If I am able to get reasonable density coverage in ASE for a given METAR, then I should be able to get the same or better results in AS2012 using the exact same textures. This is not something that is beyond HiFi Sim's ability to correct. We just need to demonstrate that there is an issue relative to the results that were achievable in ASE.

[HiFly 16]

However, I would still expect AS2012 to at the very least match ASE. It should be better than ASE, not worse.If I am able to get reasonable density coverage in ASE for a given METAR, then I should be able to get the same or better results in AS2012 using the exact same textures. This is not something that is beyond HiFi Sim's ability to correct. We just need to demonstrate that there is an issue relative to the results that were achievable in ASE.

Very good point, Jason. If it were strictly a bad texture issue then you would think it would look the same in ASE and AS2012, wouldn't you? But I think AS2012 is designed to use textures very differently and were trying to mimick REX but with an improved method of texture blending. Several of us have already posted threads on this issue and Damian is aware of it. Our main concern as I stated is that we can't get a true overcast depiction thru either of the products. With AS2012, the textures they present never are FULL bitmaps of cloud cover. But for my test I used FSX default textures to eliminate that issue and still as you said AS2012 refuses to transmit the correct cloud cover data to FSX. It seems again that the developers were more concerned with the look of the textures and assumed everyone would be flying partly cloudy, I guess. Their intent, no doubt was to capture some of the REX market. I am surprised though that Damian wouldn't have used a Beta tester who was at least familiar with IFR and would have tested the most common of all scenarios: low overcast cloud cover!!!

[Valcor 9]

Jes,I am getting much better results with using extended route coverage in DWC mode.

According to the manual, "Create additional stations" and "Enhance route coverage" have no effect in DWC mode. I would imagine that is because it uses the global weather of FSX in that mode.

[denver69 0]

I did 4 things at once to improve cloud cover so my hunch was switching to REX textures. This improved the coverage but I too am still having problems. The clouds do not dissapear as much and I really do not know what to attribute this to. All I know untill I do more testing is I switched to REX textures, enabled DWC and enhanced route coverage and it made the sim usable for me. Where as before I was not even willing to do a flight because when I flew the NGX from KLGA to CYQB during a winter storm, the whole storm dissapeared from under me and it remained mostly clear all the way untill I began the approach into CYQB, then the weather came back. We are an unusually picky bunch but this is also what Hifi aims at for its target audience so it should work better. I need to spend many more hours testing to try to narrow this down and hopefully Hifi is working to resolve the issue.Just want to say that I dont expect an exact interpretation, just close enough w/n the limitations. But the problems we are having indicate that something is very wrong with AS2012 compared to ASE.

[Chris Willis 8]

Hi Guys,The best things to do is to open a ticket and send the route, flight, all info to able duplicate this. Any Texture used, Default Fsx, freeware, or any others, are not related to coverage, hole, empty sky, patch, dissapeared wx, clouds formation. Texture in any game produce visual only for either ground, building or sky environment, they never change the base structure and placement.

[Driftdown 1]

A quick reply to say that I have indeed come the same disappointing conclusion: for the moment (I have faith in you guys and know you will fix this) AS2012 is less efficient and accurate than ASE post SP2 (emphasis on POST SP2) when it comes to this.I have already submitted a ticket and am in discussion with Damian. But felt it was worth signaling the fact to the other users experiencing the same thing.

[jport1 10]

A quick reply to say that I have indeed come the same disappointing conclusion: for the moment (I have faith in you guys and know you will fix this) AS2012 is less efficient and accurate than ASE post SP2 (emphasis on POST SP2) when it comes to this.I have already submitted a ticket and am in discussion with Damian. But felt it was worth signaling the fact to the other users experiencing the same thing.

I have experience the very same issue. Glad you put in a ticket. I too love what HIFI does and have been a subscriber for a long time. Joe

[denver69 0]

I did a flight from KHOU to CYLW today and noticed the now usual and tiresom holes in the overcast at KHOU. It was solid 900 overcast the whole time. After takeoff I really started to correlate what was happening but unfortunately my problem may be slightly different but maybe not. As I showed in another post was a picture of the stratus deck with huge ugly squares taken out of it. This so far is only happening with stratus clouds. With cumulus I am getting full coverage. The spotty coverage is in each individual cloudlet that makes up the deck, there are holes in between each one of them. And then there are the macro scale disappearance of these squares in the cloud quilt as I fly over. Sometimes the squares disappear as I fly toward and over them and sometimes they disappear at random. These will leave some pretty amazing geometrical patterns and not in a good or natural way at all. When the overcast is composed of cumulus or nimbostratus the deck is complete and normal. It is just these thin stratus decks that I think are the cilprit here. I also notice one very important thing. ASE and before would use multiple stratus decks one on top of another to give better coverage like some of you are doing manually. I have never seen this with AS2012, it is always one layer.Have any of you been experiencing this squares in the quilt appearance of the low and thin stratus deck, with disappearance?Also on this flight it seemed that with these stratus clouds over one particular area were all cut in half. Each cloudlet making up the deck looked as if it were cut by scissors and that "cut" edge was shimmering back and forth giving the whole deck a shimmer effect.