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Santi871

Spoilers behaviour upon deployment on landing

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Well, i don't know if anyone noticed this but if you land (having spoilers armed) and bounce off even the slightest the spoilers will like attempt to deploy but close until you touchdown again, i dont know if this happens in real life, but after watching this video i noticed it doesnt.

Is this normal?EDIT:PS: read my signature, i hope im still allowed to post here, if not just tell me.

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I don't know the answer to your question, but I know that ngx owner or not, you're free to post here if you're a member of the forum, which I can see you are. You even obey the forum rules (full name) which a lot of ngx owners don't.


PMDG-777-EK-SIG-MAY1713-2_zps6f2ed2be.pn
 

Chidiebere Anyahara

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There are 2 types of spoilers, ground and flight.At touchdown, if armed, speedbrake lever will move to the up position deploying spoilers. In this condition, aircraft on ground, all panels will go up, but, if bouncing, when the aircraft is in air, the ground spoilers will be restow as they work only on ground.The flight spoilers remains open as the lever is still up. When the aircraft touches again, all spoilers will go out again.


Regards

Andrea Daviero

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Well, in that case i look forward on PMDG solving this problem because all the spoilers (both flight and ground) restow if you bounce off :)And also when you touchdown after bouncing the spoilers will deploy again but this time way too quickly.If a PMDG dev reads this please test it so you can see what im talking about :)

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I never checked this, however you're right, all panels (ground and flight) will restow on the NGX while the lever is still on the up position.I don't know if on the NGX is only a visual issue or if it means that drag is removed also from flight spoilers...


Regards

Andrea Daviero

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The spolers in the UP position isn't there to give drag, the up position do SPOIL lift and after that point the airplane CAN NOT bounch or leave the ground again. That is why a good landning is a firm landing, because then at tuchdown the main gear absorbs the shock (once, or the oil starts to boil) in the oildamper. In that situation then you get WOW the spoilers goes up, all lift is destroyed and the landning gear starts to work in the gas/oil dampening mode. And the autobrake and reverse trust stops the plane before the runway end.


Daniel Groth

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The point is that on the NGX the spoilers fully retract on bounce, we are not speaking about ground spoiler efficiency to remove lift (as on the NGX is too low as you can take off again with increased pitch).The point is that when they visually retract, the flight spoiler logic in the fligt dynamics continues to remove lift/add drag or the visual logic is supported by the dynamics?And mainly, that's wrong as the flight spoilers are linked to the lever position and cannot be fully retracted if the lever is up (not speaking about failures).


Regards

Andrea Daviero

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The point is that on the NGX the spoilers fully retract on bounce, we are not speaking about ground spoiler efficiency to remove lift (as on the NGX is too low as you can take off again with increased pitch).The point is that when they visually retract, the flight spoiler logic in the fligt dynamics continues to remove lift/add drag or the visual logic is supported by the dynamics?And mainly, that's wrong as the flight spoilers are linked to the lever position and cannot be fully retracted if the lever is up (not speaking about failures).
No idea, i would have to test it but its quite hard to make it bounce off so hard that it stays up enough time in the air to check if the spoilers have an effect, although i can make 2 landings two compare (one with spoilers armed and one with without) but its a bit hard. I think that taking a look at the code is enough to realize if it does or not, but only devs can do that.

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Just touch and pull the column, it will take off again, and all spoilers will be stowed with lever still deployed


Regards

Andrea Daviero

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The issue of the bouncing is mostly related to FSX limits I think, the simulation of the ground lift dumping devices is mostly undone on FS, with all panels out, the plane is still controllable and can take off again until stall speed/angles are reached. I can see this also in some useless add ons (car or trucks) in FS where the steering and the other stuffs are far to be real. In some conditions, you can let a car to take off... If you have, try the wilco's ferrari.


Regards

Andrea Daviero

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The issue of the bouncing is mostly related to FSX limits I think, the simulation of the ground lift dumping devices is mostly undone on FS, with all panels out, the plane is still controllable and can take off again until stall speed/angles are reached.I can see this also in some useless add ons (car or trucks) in FS where the steering and the other stuffs are far to be real. In some conditions, you can let a car to take off... If you have, try the wilco's ferrari.
Well, unrealistic dynamics or not, they can still make the spoilers behave as they do in real life in case of bouncing off, thing which would be cool.

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