Difficult to slow down

[davierosoft 13]

Bug definetly.The antiice will take effect on idle, but as it is removed idle must be restored to a lower value.The problem seems to be that the different idles are not simulated, what NGX does is to adjust the throttles to simulate the idle change.I tried it in VNAV SPD (in the video), LVL CHG, and with AT off, always the same.The V/S solved the problem on your plane as in V/S the throttles will go to SPD mode so the AT is controlling them.In VNAV or in LVL CHG, or with AT disconnected, the throttles are unable to retard untill ARM changes to another mode.Youtube is finishing the upload, the video will be avaiable soon.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX7Gefasr1E&feature=youtu.be

[davierosoft 13]

Just before someone point to the fact that I was over the path in the video and FMC showed path unachieavable, I tell that it is a flight test I reloaded at about 6000ft then I moved te plane to an higher altitude and back from its route to test.

[RYR738 9]

*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************VNAV SPD = pitch for speed with constant thrust setting (climb N1 limit or idle in descents) - always.VNAV PTH = idle thrust from T/D to first waypoint using pitch to meet the econ speed (which the idle path is calculated with), and after the first waypoint, it goes into power-on geometric descent (you'll see the A/T mode go from ARM to FMC SPD). If you drop too far below the target speed, even in the idle PTH mode, it will add thrust to get you back up to target and then retard to idle again.Ryan Maziarz********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************Yes this is how VNAV works with FMC 10.8a but the only problem I see is that the Flight Minimum Idle is still a bit too high !It's usually about 38% after T/D..................it should be about 32 % ( it is correct in Level Change ! )Fred.

[Flight Sim Geek 0]

It took me 12 flights before I as able to do a decent and landing properly. Just keep practicing. Just a a quick tip, begin your slow down 15nm before you commence your decent and as you get more experience decrease the mile out before you begin your slow down to 10, 5 etc until you begin your decent were you should. Keep me updated on how it is going.Enjoy many flights in the NGX!Aaron G.

[davierosoft 13]

It took me 12 flights before I as able to do a decent and landing properly. Just keep practicing. Just a a quick tip, begin your slow down 15nm before you commence your decent and as you get more experience decrease the mile out before you begin your slow down to 10, 5 etc until you begin your decent were you should. Keep me updated on how it is going.Enjoy many flights in the NGX!Aaron G.

The correct programming of the FMC and the use of VNAV is done to prevent to try the descent.When you program FMC (excluding ATC) it will pilot the plane from the climb to the approach, and if correctly programmed it will take you at the approach without touching anithing. Here the problem is different...The idle is changing the thrust, someting the FMC doesn't take in count, so the pilot must take always the plane control to fix tis. Obviusly this is less economical for our virtual dollars as the descent will be different from what is the best one.

[Thunderbird8 1]

Well as far as I'm concerned - and this is with no weather, no nothing - I do not trust the VNAV descent as far as I could throw it, and I'm a very experienced Boeing simmer.What's beginning to irritate me a little is that as this aircraft was designed to use FSX (and nothing else) as a flying platform why were tweaks not put in place to compensate for this, such as dealing with FSX weather?It's all very well the people at PMDG making ironic comments like "welcome to FSX" when faced with a shortcoming supposedly of the NGX, but citing 'high fidelity' and faithful systems seems a little hollow when they knew the platform was not entirely compatible. We all know you can't change FSX - so why not change the sim??I have recently been told that in order to get weather anything like realistic (not the weather you understand, but the way the NGX reacts to it) I have to spend between £60-80 on buying the full version of FSUIPC and a weather program, I forget which, is it Active Sky? In any case it's more money than the NGX cost in the first place!And before the legions of people who will not hear a bad word said about PMDG leap on and batter me - I believe in this sim and the company that made it, and I salute any firm who makes such good quality add-ons for it. However I also believe that free speech and honest debate should not be stifled.

[Superpilotv2 2]

Hmm, guys, I´m back from the above mentioned test flight from KEUG (Eugene) to KTCM (Fairchild Intl.). This time it went all well. :smile:I flew the ILS RWY 8 approach via the TOU transition. The started descent about 100 out of the IAF with throttles in RETARD and then in ARM mode. We went down with 280 kts and an N1 of around 39% but after overflying the first waypoint of the descend it the changed into FMC SPD mode and we were slowly loosing N1 till we had an N1 of 34-33% (Which seems to be somehow correct.). Also slowing down to 240 kts was no big problem, extending the flaps and thus slowing down went exactly as I hoped. 30% N1 while descending with flaps on 1. We intercepted the ILS at perfect height and slowed town to landing speed. It all went exactly as planned except the landing was a bit heavy due to 20+ kts tailwind. But all in all it just worked perfect and also my fuel planning was all right.

[kevinh 409]

Off the AVSIM Forums where else? :Big Grin:Look if it wasn't too fast then people wouldn't be complaining about being able to slow down when they need to. On top of that if the airlines were descending at 330 knots as SOP's then they wouldnt be using low cost index's in the 20-40 range. To descend at 330 knots with VNAV you need a cost index in the range of 100. If most airlines are using 40s or less then why would you not want to follow what the real world airlines are doing?If you wanna use a cost index of 100 and descend at 330 knots go ahead nobody stopping you. Use what you feel is right.EI on the other hand have no issues with a cost index of 36 which gives me 280 knot descent rates at 1800 to 2200 fpm and makes it easy to slow down anytime I need to.

330 kts is not too fast to descend. The problem (for some) is clearly descending with an idle N1 that's too high. I don't have the high idle problem, so don't need to avoid 330.Kevin Hall

[Paul Deemer 13]

Turned on wing and eng AIN1 increased to 37-39% (as expected)Throttles advanced a bit to rise the idle (idle control doesn't use throttles)AT mode was still in ARM (and in this mode the AT cannot move the levers)Turned back OFF the wing and ENG AIN1 remained t the last position (37-39%)Throttles remained at the previous position as the throttles in ARM are not able to move themBy moving the controller throttle the idle returned to its nominal value

From what your saying it does seem to cause some throttle issues. I remember reading a thread awhile back where it was stated ICE on the NGX is Not modeled so I don't see the reason why people are turning it on in the first place.

[Superpilotv2 2]

Bug definetly.The antiice will take effect on idle, but as it is removed idle must be restored to a lower value.The problem seems to be that the different idles are not simulated, what NGX does is to adjust the throttles to simulate the idle change.I tried it in VNAV SPD (in the video), LVL CHG, and with AT off, always the same.The V/S solved the problem on your plane as in V/S the throttles will go to SPD mode so the AT is controlling them.In VNAV or in LVL CHG, or with AT disconnected, the throttles are unable to retard untill ARM changes to another mode.Youtube is finishing the upload, the video will be avaiable soon.

What do you use for head movement?

[davierosoft 13]

Track ir

[davierosoft 13]

From what your saying it does seem to cause some throttle issues. I remember reading a thread awhile back where it was stated ICE on the NGX is Not modeled so I don't see the reason why people are turning it on in the first place.

The sme thing bout thrust happen also with the gears and flaps, just extend gears and retract back, idle will remain increased.Just take a look at the video!About Anti Ice, I don't use it, but it is the only thing I can use to increase the thrust and try to replicate the N1 issue.That is the thing that pointed my attention to the idle linked to throttle position.

[Spin737 102]

I imagine that once the sim gives the RETARD command at the ToD, it can no longer bring them back to idle since they are in ARM, and the sim "simulates" the PMC EEC.

[davierosoft 13]

If AT cannot move aft, it cannot move also forward... The throttles move also with AT off. But the movement is only to the forward direction.I can suppose that pmdg to manage the idle let the throttles to move, but, they must move back to the lower value if condition changes.The idle is controlled by EEC without any throttle movement.

[Spin737 102]

If AT cannot move aft, it cannot move also forward... The throttles move also with AT off. But the movement is only to the forward direction.I can suppose that pmdg to manage the idle let the throttles to move, but, they must move back to the lower value if condition changes.The idle is controlled by EEC without any throttle movement.

I agree, it's not an AT issue, but how they bootstrapped the EEC. It sounds like they have some more coding to do. If they can get the T/Ls to advance with AI on, they should be able to code the opposite.