747 2.0 and 777 are on their way?

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

This is all happening too fast! I don't know if I can handle it..... :(

Well before you know it 5-6 months will go by for the release of the 777.. Time flies. (No pun intended)

[Guest dlrk]

Yeah, well, I am really disappointed that VATSIM would allow the use of that image from AVSIM. We would not violate their copyrights, and we would expect them to honor ours. I am sorry to see this from that organization. And, yes, I know, there is a link back to these forums. The poster could have provided the link without poaching the image. Obviously, he didn't read the statement at the bottom of the article we posted this morning.

Tom, with all due respect, it's hotlinked! VATSM isn't hosting the image, it's linked from the image you posted. If you didn't want it hotlinked, you could have disabled it server side. And it was user posted on a forum.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HotlinkingIt is not a copyright violation!

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Tom, with all due respect, it's hotlinked! VATSM isn't hosting the image, it's linked from the image you posted. If you didn't want it hotlinked, you could have disabled it server side. And it was user posted on a forum.http://en.wikipedia....wiki/HotlinkingIt is not a copyright violation!

Okay, so compounding the issue is that they are using our bandwidth to show that image. Great. And yes, it is still a violation of our terms. Read the statement at the bottom of the page where that image is posted.EDIT: here is the statement that appears at the bottom of that page and will appear in all future pages of the new AVSIM site:

All material included within AVSIM is Copyrighted and may not be reproduced or copied in any form without express written permission from AVSIM Management. Linking to articles and images are allowed under some circumstances, but links must be approved by management before links are established. Images and material holding separate copyright notices are provided exclusively to AVSIM and that copyright remains with the original authors. Images and artwork provided herein shall not be copied, reproduced or used in any other fashion without the express written permission of their respective authors.

[Guest dlrk]

Tom, US copyright law and court rulings are that links and hotlinks are not illegal. Statements like that do not change the law, and you have the ability to disable hotlinking serverside. Compounding this issue, is that you are blaming VATSIM for the actions of a member who probably missed your fine print.You are being upset and angry for no reason whatsoever. People link to things on the internet, get used to it!

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

People link to things on the internet, get used to it!

Bandwidth isn't free.

[Guest dlrk]

It's part of the expense of running a website. Hotlinking can be disabled server side.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Tom, US copyright law and court rulings are that links and hotlinks are not illegal. Statements like that do not change the law, and you have the ability to disable hotlinking serverside. Compounding this issue, is that you are blaming VATSIM for the actions of a member who probably missed your fine print.You are being upset and angry for no reason whatsoever. People link to things on the internet, get used to it!

You are over characterizing my reaction. If you are a lawyer, then send me an email stating your credentials and we'll talk. Otherwise, you might want to take a look at any number of sites, like airliners.net, and read their terms. We honor their terms (as well as VATSIM's) and we expect others, individual users or not, to honor ours. And yes, you are right, we can shut down all linking entirely. We are trying to honor our offer to allow linking as stated in the above post by me. However, if shutting down all linking is what it takes, we can do that too. All we ask for is a courtesy request. If that can't or won't happen, then we can take this to the next step.

It's part of the expense of running a website. Hotlinking can be disabled server side.

Exactly right.. and I am within inches of doing that.

[Guest dlrk]

Then, if you don't want hotlinking, then disable it. I apologize if I seem to have reacted in an over the top way, I simply find website owners who fail to understand the internet.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Then, if you don't want hot linking, then disable it. I apologize if I seem to have reacted in an over the top way, I simply find website owners who fail to understand the INTERNET.

I fail to understand the INTERNET? Hmm... That's an interesting presumption. I worked with the "INTERNET" when it was still a DARPA project. Your presumptuousness is "over the top". Never mind... You missed entirely the point about "courtesy". We have allowed linking for years (there was a point where we didn't and we are VERY familiar with the server settings to prevent it). We have allowed it as a service to the community and all we have asked is the courtesy of a request to do so. In this case, that didn't happen. It points up the same issue that all sites that pay for their own bandwidth have... how to keep paying for that bandwidth. If you are Okay with AVSIM going out of business because we can't afford to pay for poaching, then so be it. If that subtlety escapes you, then you can continue to quote Wikipedia and when we are no longer here (Okay a bit dramatic) you can post in the Wikipedia entry for AVSIM that they shut down and went out of business because they unstintingly gave of their bandwidth...EDIT: one other not so subtle point.... If you want to contribute so that others can "hotlink" using our bandwidth, send us a donation of a thousand dollars, and I will forever shut my mouth on the subject. Edited March 25, 2012 by Tom Allensworth
Had to add some reality checks.

[Guest dlrk]

Tom. the internet has changed DRAMATICALLY since it was a DARPA project. You are COMPLETELY in your rights to disallow hotlinking, and if I were in your position I probably would.It is not realistic to expect people to refrain from doing so based on fine print or EULA style text. That's all I'm saying. It is technically possible to selectively permit hotlinking(block it from the main link, provide a separate link where it is permitted upon request).I'm sorry if I offended you. I think we both misunderstood each other.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Tom. the internet has changed DRAMATICALLY since it was a DARPA project. You are COMPLETELY in your rights to disallow hotlinking, and if I were in your position I probably would.

Yes, and we have been here for all of it (or I have in any event).

It is not realistic to expect people to refrain from doing so based on fine print or EULA style text. That's all I'm saying. It is technically possible to selectively permit hotlinking(block it from the main link, provide a separate link where it is permitted upon request).

Again, you miss the sublety of "courtesy". All you are doing is reinforcing our reconsideration of blocking of any linking...

I'm sorry if I offended you. I think we both misunderstood each other.

I am not offended. I am gobsmacked by someone that would so rapidly defend the behaviour, discount the cost we pay for their ability to do so, and then preach to me about solutions. I understand the English language pretty well.... there is no misunderstanding. I suggest you just drop it and move on.

[Guest dlrk]

Agreed, me and you are from different cultures and eras.

[IFR7700 228]

Forever a greater distance grows 'tween courtesy and legality.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Agreed, me and you are from different cultures and eras.

I will take that as a compliment. Thank you.

[Guest dlrk]

It's not a compliment, not an insult. It's a factual statement.