Strange rudder behavior

[P-38L 0]

Hello to all of you.

 

I have been a commercial airline pilot for six years, and four years before as a private pilot. I have flown a variety number of twin-engine aircraft and single piston engine.

 

Since I met the Flight Simulator (95) I noticed something very strange, the rudder does not react as in real life when the plane is flying. I've used other simulators such as X-Plane and IL-2 Sturmovik and in these the rudder itself reacts like in real life.

 

Why Flight simulator does not correct this error?

 

I have done experiments in real life to fly the plane without using ailerons, only elevator and rudder and can direct the aircraft to achieve perfect way to a great landing on centerline even with moderate crosswind.

 

I like a lot the new Microsoft Flight for its graphic quality and theme for career advancement of aviation and virtual work, but I am disappointed that the programmer or programmers who made ​​the rudder effect have not noticed this strange behavior.

 

I mean, you press the pedal all the way to the left, the aircraft nose pointing to the left, BUT begins to slide to the right, this is not correct.

 

Can an airline pilot do compare what I mean? or simply use the IL-2 Sturmovik few minutes as compare the way to fly, you will notice that is completely different.

 

For the record: I'm not saying IL-2 or X-Plane are better, Each focuses on a different topic or purpose. I'm just saying they should correct this behavior.

 

Does Microsoft Flight developers listen to what their users say?

 

Please do not tell me I have to adjust my pedals, I'm not new to aviation or even a novice computer user. Currently, I am a designer and manufacturer of flight simulators cockpits, since I got my commercial pilot license. My website is: www.carlinga.com (still in development and soon in english).

 

Thank you very much.

[jcomm 5,939]

I don't think I can exactly understand your question, but from my RL experience, there are allways moments when you apply rudder/aileron. There can be sideslip if you use rudder only while the "weathervane" eefct does not come into play and "tries" to align the aircraft with the reference wind, but, can you be more explicit about what you were describing? And of course, there's allways sideforce due to sideslip...

 

 

 

Hello to all of you.

 

I have been a commercial airline pilot for six years, and four years before as a private pilot. I have flown a variety number of twin-engine aircraft and single piston engine.

 

Since I met the Flight Simulator (95) I noticed something very strange, the rudder does not react as in real life when the plane is flying. I've used other simulators such as X-Plane and IL-2 Sturmovik and in these the rudder itself reacts like in real life.

 

Why Flight simulator does not correct this error?

 

I have done experiments in real life to fly the plane without using ailerons, only elevator and rudder and can direct the aircraft to achieve perfect way to a great landing on centerline even with moderate crosswind.

 

I like a lot the new Microsoft Flight for its graphic quality and theme for career advancement of aviation and virtual work, but I am disappointed that the programmer or programmers who made ​​the rudder effect have not noticed this strange behavior.

 

I mean, you press the pedal all the way to the left, the aircraft nose pointing to the left, BUT begins to slide to the right, this is not correct.

 

Can an airline pilot do compare what I mean? or simply use the IL-2 Sturmovik few minutes as compare the way to fly, you will notice that is completely different.

 

For the record: I'm not saying IL-2 or X-Plane are better, Each focuses on a different topic or purpose. I'm just saying they should correct this behavior.

 

Does Microsoft Flight developers listen to what their users say?

 

Please do not tell me I have to adjust my pedals, I'm not new to aviation or even a novice computer user. Currently, I am a designer and manufacturer of flight simulators cockpits, since I got my commercial pilot license. My website is: www.carlinga.com (still in development and soon in english).

 

Thank you very much.

[staib 1]

My understanding is that a left rudder input is causing an unwanted roll to the right...

 

I was going to try this out in a little while, but find myself watching The Masters golf instead :)

[LHookins 3,103]

I mean, you press the pedal all the way to the left, the aircraft nose pointing to the left, BUT begins to slide to the right, this is not correct.

 

I'm not a pilot, but I suspect all aircraft do not react exactly the same way. There was an entry in the FSX air files to adjust this behavior so you could fine tune it to be exactly what you wanted.

 

Just a guess here, and I have no idea if this applies to Microsoft, but it's likely that people who program flight simulators are not real world pilots. Some have never been at the controls of a plane. I would hope that somewhere on the team there's someone with real world flight experience, no matter which sim you're flying. You have no idea how hard it is to explain adverse yaw to someone who has never flown.

 

Hm. Four years from private pilot to commercial airline pilot. If I'd known it was that quick I might have had a different career. Congrats on getting there quickly.

 

Hook

[LAdamson 240]

Just a guess here, and I have no idea if this applies to Microsoft, but it's likely that people who program flight simulators are not real world pilots.

 

When I was on the Microsoft betas for MSFS (3 of them), there was always real world pilots...........who either worked with Microsoft directly, or were 3rd party programmers/vendors, who were invited to work on the betas. Many of the 3rd party models that are available these days, have connections to rw pilots.

 

As to the question in the initial post, I'm not sure of what's being asked either. I haven't noticed a glaring difference between X-Plane, IL-2, & MSFS. Perhaps it's just the planes I use. For instance.............back in the old days of R/C............it was common to have one channel rudder only. For those planes, a high amount of dihedral was used to initiate a bank with rudder.

[RYR738 9]

Welcome to the forum P-38L.

 

It sounds to me that you are having a problem calibrating your rudder pedals or they are faulty.

I have used real boeing rudder pedal and their linkages connected to very taut springs and calibrated using FSUIPC in FSX with no problems at all.

We use these in 2 of our 737NG FTD's and lots of current NG pilots always comment on how realistic they feel and behave.

 

Have you tried FSUIPC ?

 

Fred.

[P-38L 0]

Thank you for your comments and help.

 

Unfortunately I have no way to prove what I say because I can not take a video while flying and use my laptop at the same time, and none of my passengers would be willing to do what I want with the laptop and the simulator.

 

The problem is not the FSUIPC, or the configuration of the pedals, it is only physical.

 

If I turn the pedal to the left or right the plane would take that direction: left or right, not just facing with the nose left or right and start to slide.

 

I truly appreciate your enthusiasm for helping and I hope the designers of Microsoft Flight take into consideration and correct the problem some day.

[LHookins 3,103]

Good to hear Microsoft has plenty of PPLs available.

 

I just did a flight in the Maule and had no problems doing what you described with just the rudder pedals.

 

Hook

[jcomm 5,939]

After reading your post again I think you may probably refer to adverse yaw, happening not when you use aileron without rudder for coordination, and the nose moves for a while opposite of the turn (?) I.e. you bank left but the nose moves right initially... Is this it?

 

 

 

Hello to all of you.

 

I have been a commercial airline pilot for six years, and four years before as a private pilot. I have flown a variety number of twin-engine aircraft and single piston engine.

 

Since I met the Flight Simulator (95) I noticed something very strange, the rudder does not react as in real life when the plane is flying. I've used other simulators such as X-Plane and IL-2 Sturmovik and in these the rudder itself reacts like in real life.

 

Why Flight simulator does not correct this error?

 

I have done experiments in real life to fly the plane without using ailerons, only elevator and rudder and can direct the aircraft to achieve perfect way to a great landing on centerline even with moderate crosswind.

 

I like a lot the new Microsoft Flight for its graphic quality and theme for career advancement of aviation and virtual work, but I am disappointed that the programmer or programmers who made ​​the rudder effect have not noticed this strange behavior.

 

I mean, you press the pedal all the way to the left, the aircraft nose pointing to the left, BUT begins to slide to the right, this is not correct.

 

Can an airline pilot do compare what I mean? or simply use the IL-2 Sturmovik few minutes as compare the way to fly, you will notice that is completely different.

 

For the record: I'm not saying IL-2 or X-Plane are better, Each focuses on a different topic or purpose. I'm just saying they should correct this behavior.

 

Does Microsoft Flight developers listen to what their users say?

 

Please do not tell me I have to adjust my pedals, I'm not new to aviation or even a novice computer user. Currently, I am a designer and manufacturer of flight simulators cockpits, since I got my commercial pilot license. My website is: www.carlinga.com (still in development and soon in english).

 

Thank you very much.

[Chock 17,769]

Adverse yaw notwithstanding, which in any case is generally only really significant on an aircraft with a long wingspan, of which there are none in Flight, any aeroplane which gets a large rudder deflection will of course yaw into the the direction you boot the rudder. But, depending on its speed and weight, all aircraft will continue on their current course intially, even when pointing off to one side with a bootful of rudder, because of intertia imparted by travelling on the original course prior to the rudder input. Eventually the offset thrust will pull the vector of travel onto the direction the aircraft is facing, but it is by no means instantaneous, and it will differ immensely between aircraft with different weights and available thrust.

 

Any glider pilot will tell you that, without an engine pulling you into the turn, and no propwash on the tail either, you have to give sailplanes a massive amount of rudder input to commence a turn, since despite their light weight, even they have to overcome the inertia of their initial direction of flight and the adverse yaw of those big long wings.

 

All that said, I think we have to acknowledge that MS Flight is not a level D simulator, nor is it intended to be.

 

Al

[jcomm 5,939]

I'll add to Chock's post that the Maule could probably (but I don't really know for sure... never flown one...) show a little adverse yaw tendency due to the considerable area of the ailerons, even taking into account the differential being used to lessen this effect. On the other hand I believe an RV-6 is a "feet on floor flyer" (L. Adamson better than anyone can help regarding this particular model...), other than when you takeoff/climb or make your approaches under crosswind..

[LAdamson 240]

On the other hand I believe an RV-6 is a "feet on floor flyer" (L. Adamson better than anyone can help regarding this particular model...), other than when you takeoff/climb or make your approaches under crosswind..

 

Yes...... very little adverse yaw, due to frize ailerons, differential linkage, and short wingspan.

[LHookins 3,103]

The Maule in Flight has considerable adverse yaw. The Stearman has a small amount, but noticable. You'll see the most obvious effects in top down view if you bank the plane without using the rudder, but even in the Stearman you'll see it out the front of the cockpit.

 

Hook

[xplanery 250]

I don't know about that, but at least in FSX and generally all MS simulators rudder has been way too uneffective. I have never flown a real plane, but based on some ACI episodes and general accident investigations FSX rudder at least on big jets seems like a joke. Rudder going to full left or right position was enough to roll and bring down two 737s in 90¨s, and also around 2000´s Northwest Airlines 747 had other half of its rudder jammed to extreme position, and just that half was enough to give pilots really hard job keeping their aircraft under control. In FSX you can just put it full left or right without having much banking at all.

 

At least this behavior seems much more realistic in X Plane 10, not sure about Flight as it has only smaller planes.

[LHookins 3,103]

Some of the aircraft in FSX needed considerable tweaking to get them to fly in a reasonable manner. Even some payware aircraft didn't get a lot of things right. Actually, I should thank Coronado for making me figure out where adverse yaw was adjusted in the air file.

 

It's not so much that the general flight model in FSX was bad, it's just that the parameters weren't set up properly. Extremely improperly in some cases. A lot of it appeared to be side effects of a cut-and-paste from another aircraft, or some default aircraft parameters that just didn't fit the new aircraft.

 

Since the Flight update I'm finding that getting a coordinated turn with the Maule is much easier than it ever was in FSX in any aircraft.

 

Hook