Heading Select call missing

[NGXfanatic 85]

Hello there, version 1.3 user here. I have noticed that whenever I use NADP 1 as the takeoff method (I never use NADP 2), I never get offered the option to call for a roll mode at 400 feet. Instead, I have to reach over and manually press the heading select button on the MCP. I'm positive this call is on the iFLY edition, and for some strange reason, with earlier versions of the FS2crew for NGX I could have sworn I'd seen the heading select button enable itself on climbout, without any pre-arming on the ground by me. When it comes to pre-arming, I only prearm VNAV, and LNAV if I choose to use that as a roll mode, but the point I want to make is I never pre-arm heading select.

 

If memory serves me right, the first call in queue upon climbout is CLB THRUST, so it looks like this step is missing in the script:

 

For NADP 1 (former ICAO A)

 

400ft Select Roll mode

 

Climb at V2+10

 

At 800/1000/1500 Reduce to Max Climb Thrust (N1). Call for Level Change.

 

Climb to 3000 AGL

 

At 3000 AGL Set flaps up Speed , Accelerate and retract flaps on schedule then push VNAV,.

 

VNAV would not be engaged until 3000ft AGL and flaps retracted.

[byork 2,260]

Heading select is definitely there.

 

Only way it would get skipped is if you had LNAV armed prior to takeoff.

[brucewtb 252]

With respect to this, one thing I have noticed is that the NADP flow as used by FS2C is different to the way things are done in the PMDG tutorial 2. There the NADP parameters are entered in the FMC (takeoff page 2), Vnav and Lnav are armed prior to akeoff and CMDA is selected after takeoff at 400ft AGL. So folks (like me) who have schooled themselves on the NGX via the PMDG tut 2 prior to purchasing FS2C can get tripped up by the way FS2C does the NADP which is more complex. While Heading Select is there in FS2C (you seem to have a choice - press the main button for Heading Select or the secondary button for Lnav) one other thing that puzzles me a bit is the select climb thrust command. Why is this in FS2C - I thought this was handled by the autothrottle and it isn't in the PMDG tut 2 AFAIK?

 

Bruce

[damienw 1]

With respect to this, one thing I have noticed is that the NADP flow as used by FS2C is different to the way things are done in the PMDG tutorial 2. There the NADP parameters are entered in the FMC (takeoff page 2), Vnav and Lnav are armed prior to akeoff and CMDA is selected after takeoff at 400ft AGL. So folks (like me) who have schooled themselves on the NGX via the PMDG tut 2 prior to purchasing FS2C can get tripped up by the way FS2C does the NADP which is more complex. While Heading Select is there in FS2C (you seem to have a choice - press the main button for Heading Select or the secondary button for Lnav) one other thing that puzzles me a bit is the select climb thrust command. Why is this in FS2C - I thought this was handled by the autothrottle and it isn't in the PMDG tut 2 AFAIK?

 

Bruce

 

Hi Bruce,

 

If LNAV/VNAV are armed before takeoff then the vnav lnav etc become verification calls.

 

It's not a command, it's a verification callout, "At thrust reduction height, verify that climb thrust is set." (from the Boeing FCOM) applies to aircraft With auto T/O thrust reduction and with FMC U10.8 or U10.7.

[brucewtb 252]

Hi Bruce,

 

If LNAV/VNAV are armed before takeoff then the vnav lnav etc become verification calls.

 

It's not a command, it's a verification callout, "At thrust reduction height, verify that climb thrust is set." (from the Boeing FCOM) applies to aircraft With auto T/O thrust reduction and with FMC U10.8 or U10.7.

 

Yes thanks for that clarification but it kinda doesn't work that way in FS2C at least for Lnav and Vnav because if you prearm Lnav and Vnav the FO disarms them at the PF prompt and this is what trips folks up and you get threads similar to this - there have been a few of them. Perhaps the logic of FS2C needs to change to accommodate Lnav and Vnav being prearmed.

 

Bruce

[byork 2,260]

Bruce,

 

FS2Crew should automatically skip over VNAV and LNAV if they are engaged.

 

That logic is already coded in.

 

When are you pre-arming LNAV and VNAV?

 

 

Are you using Version 1.3? Are you getting an SDK error message?

[ZKOKQ 986]

Bruce, as Bryan said, but also, are you using TO/GA for take off. FS2Crew logic works fine for pre-armed Lnav & Vnav departure. But you must use correct take off procedures to work. After selecting climb thrust and command "A", what happens ?

[brucewtb 252]

Bruce, as Bryan said, but also, are you using TO/GA for take off. FS2Crew logic works fine for pre-armed Lnav & Vnav departure. But you must use correct take off procedures to work. After selecting climb thrust and command "A", what happens ?

 

So if you prearm Lnav and Vnav then, when the PF asks for these during the after takeoff flow, the FO will confirm that these are set but take no other action. Well if FS2C does work like this then we don't have a problem and it is the way I would expect things to work but it also seems at odds with the advice given in the thread entitled LNAV, VNAV,CMD A, LVL CHG which advises against prearming Lnav and Vnav.

 

I am following the procedure for NADP as described in the PMDG tutorial 2. Now it all works if I simply I prearm Lnav and Vnav select CMDA myself at 400 ft and skip over these steps in FS2C and it also works if I don't prearm Lnav and Vnav and follow the FS2C takeoff flow. But if I prearm Lnav and Vnav and follow the FS2C after takeoff flow asking for Lnav and Vnav results in these settings being disarmed. Now I am away from home at the moment but will recheck all this when I get back.

 

Bruce

[byork 2,260]

Hi Bruce,

 

If you pre-armed LNAV/VNAV before takeoff, the FO/PNF will call VNAV/LNAV at around 400 feet.

 

He's not asking you to press the VNAV/LNAV button.

 

It's just a verbal 'verification' call that LNAV/VNAV are in fact engaged.

[brucewtb 252]

Hi Bruce,

 

If you pre-armed LNAV/VNAV before takeoff, the FO/PNF will call VNAV/LNAV at around 400 feet.

 

He's not asking you to press the VNAV/LNAV button.

 

It's just a verbal 'verification' call that LNAV/VNAV are in fact engaged.

 

Back home now and I have just completed a flight where FS2C did indeed work like this so not quite sure why it didn't seem to do this previously.

 

Bruce

[NGXfanatic 85]

Hey there Bryan, I think I have found out why I am missing the heading select call in NADP1. I have done a few takeoff scenarios, and I have noticed that the heading call is in the "queue" of the FS2crew commands at takeoff, but it is skipped on climbout. I have only prearmed VNAV, not LNAV or HDG SEL.

 

Here is what I am seeing in the list of FS2crew commands from brake release to acceleration height.

 

1.Takeoff

2. Gear Up

3. Climb Thrust

4. Flaps 1

 

Notice that Heading Select is missing, it should be between Gear Up and Climb Thrust. I paused the sim, and was able to arrow down to select heading select, but that is not a good solution, especially during this hectic phase of flight. Can you or anyone here confirm this issue?

 

Reminder, I have version 1.3 of button control.

[brucewtb 252]

Hey there Bryan, I think I have found out why I am missing the heading select call in NADP1. I have done a few takeoff scenarios, and I have noticed that the heading call is in the "queue" of the FS2crew commands at takeoff, but it is skipped on climbout. I have only prearmed VNAV, not LNAV or HDG SEL.

 

Here is what I am seeing in the list of FS2crew commands from brake release to acceleration height.

 

1.Takeoff

2. Gear Up

3. Climb Thrust

4. Flaps 1

 

Notice that Heading Select is missing, it should be between Gear Up and Climb Thrust. I paused the sim, and was able to arrow down to select heading select, but that is not a good solution, especially during this hectic phase of flight. Can you or anyone here confirm this issue?

 

Reminder, I have version 1.3 of button control.

 

Yes that does seem to be the way this works, with just vnav prearmed you don't appear get a roll mode option after takeoff. It seems you either have to have both vnav and lnav prearmed or neither prearmed to get a roll mode call after takeoff.

 

Bruce

[byork 2,260]

Okay, I'll check it out and fix it in V1.4 if I can reproduce it.

 

Thanks for the report.

 

Cheers,