Hot on the heels of Ariane's 'battle lines' with PMDG, they've changed some of their rhetoric regarding their 'new' 737 NG cockpit with yet more confusing statements..."...and when we say "clickable VC cockpit" you will see what we mean by "clickable" (not as in; "most switches can be clicked, somewhere in the cabin") because with the NEW Ng Series from ARIANE, what you can see in 3d that is part of the NEW systems is what you CAN click!"Suddenly, we've gone from 'what you can see is what you can click' to '....that is part of the new systems...' Bit of a come down?And:"... as a special BONUS, with the FIRST 2 releases, EVERY LIVERY of EVERY AIRLINE that flies comes WITH it. EVERY ONE. Even engine types engineered to MODEL and REGISTRATION NUMBER, including thrust rating as well as other features you have never seen before!!!"So, if you believe this statement and, for example, buy the 700 product, you'll get the individual livery, reg. number and unique thrust rating of every 700 series plane Boeing have sold? And the same for the 900 series (assuming that these are the first two releases)? That's literally hundreds of aircraft! I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!As suggested before, newcomers beware! At least with PMDG, you KNOW exactly what you're buying and there's no 'infomercial marketing bullsh*t' to confuse you.(...or is it just me who's sceptical?)Toni.

Well,I guess I have a healthy DIStrust until some dozen posts come up praising it.The only model I *might* get interested in is a -600 since it features onboard stairs which PMDG does no, AFAIK.I guess I'll stay with Erick Cantu's Kittyhawk 737-700 for some time, until he *may* lift off a -600Torsten

Before we get into another Ariane rant, I think y'all need to remember the 737-300 and 737-400 they released. Easily the best model to date of a 737, and may arguably be the best ever released of any plane for MSFS. Ariane has it's share of problems, but to begin bashing them before they've even released something is getting sort of tired.Competition is what strives those to be better!

Looking forward to screenshots of the 2d panel. As ever, it's not what they do say, it's what they don't say you have to watch out for. Allcott

Joe, I totally agree. I'd also add professionalism and honesty to the list.....This thread is not designed to 'bash' Ariane (they're quite good at doing that themselves), but to suggest that making clearly false/misleading claims is, IMHO, not the way a professional outfit should conduct business. Toni.

Joe,Agreed. My Ariane 737-300/400/500 are among my most flown aircraft in my hangar. I for one do not like PMDGs policy of forcing you to buy the -700 base pack to get the -800 (all I want is the Air Berlin and American -800 anyway). So there may be a market for a good stand-alone 737 NG panel. Let's wait and see. And continuing to coerce everyone into shunning a payware add-on producer because of an episode that is way in the past is a wee bit fanatic for me. This is supposed to be a hobby guys. :-)Misha

I was going to stay out of this until I read this comment...."And continuing to coerce everyone into shunning a payware add-on producer because of an episode that is way in the past is a wee bit fanatic for me. This is supposed to be a hobby guys"I bought the Ariane 737-300 knowing full well the allegations against its owner...that alone didn't do it, and the proof wasn't there at the time, and as far as I know nothing has ever been "proven" the way I see proof--such as in a court of law. And I agree it is still a very accurate visual model of the 733.But I also still believe the Ariane 737 series is one of broken promises and "come back later" hype that reeks of old school car salesmanship. And, considering the average simmer likes to add a livery here and there, it's one of the most expensive aircraft ever released for MSFS. Where were all the freeware livery releases hinted at when it was released? Except for Martin's release of a few obscure liveries, the 737 series has been stifled by an archaic and hokey selling scheme.And, the only way to fix the spoiler bug in my 737 is to buy a new one at the same price? Sorry--there's no excuse for it and trying to say this is about a bunch of people digging up the past is a smokescreen...We should have zero tolerance for vendors who advertise the way Ariane does. I don't care what they sell....I feel that type of advertising is geared not to the enthusiasts here, but to those who are new to the hobby and quite easily duped by that style of advertising. The latest round of advertising on the site talks down to the entire community, IMHO... Who cares about the distant past--current events are more of a concern....And mind you, I took an incredible amount of flak for even admitting I had Ariane's 733... I still fly it today, in spite of its quirks in the spoiler department. But flying around in one livery gets pretty old, and I don't really care about the suggestion that the new NG will be sold differently. If Bobbo wanted to really make amends to the community, he should rerelease the 733 with bug fixes at its original sales price--and purchase of that rerelease should entitle one to all liveries.-John

> Easily the>best model to date of a 737, and may arguably be the best ever>released of any plane for MSFS. Forget the model ! I want to know how their airplanes fly, how realistic is their 737-300 panel. There are no reviews, no independent information. IMHO the fact that they do not have their own forum (which they could easily set up on their host) for support/questions is really bizarre and makes me suspicious they are hiding something. I am approaching Ariane with an open mind but there is simply no reliable information available. Yes, their website is full of flashy slogans but it is hard to seperate advertising from facts. Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

I can understand why there may be no support forum... There are those like myself who simply want Ariane to address image, quality control, and livery issues and allow us to get a value comparable to other payware, and there are those who hold grudges and won't allow Ariane to do business no matter what they do.Their 733 panel is (as far as I know) a 2-d panel only. I believe quite a few were happy with it, but unless it has been updated to FS2004 standards along with a VC/Clickable cockpit, it's time has probably passed. I prefer the older, "steam gauge" panels since I prefer flying all but cruise by hand. Their 733 FDE has gone through several updates, but I fly one I built off of their original. I've also converted it for use with Erick Cantu's 737-700, because my modified Ariane FDE feels among the best I've flown. Most of my tweaks were minor--adjustments to MOI and a couple of other things that anyone could do.As I noted above--I am happy with the 733 were it not for having to pay to get some glaring bugs fixed. Even without dynamic shine, it is still textured so well that it looks as good as any 733 I've seen. I probably praise the wing texturing and design the most. The Ariane 733 is among the few (or only) aircraft I've seen to accurately model the flap pylons of a 733. They are pretty prominent, and it's always been a pet peeve of mine when A/C designers ignore such a visible piece of aircraft hardware.-John

According to this it will not come with a 2D-panel. http://www.fsnordic.net/discussion/index.p...;threadid=23715They are about to make the same mistake as WILCO did with their PIC A321.Cheers,

Given the choice between Ariane and PMDG, I'll have to choose Dreamfleet. :-hah

You would think, with all the posts that have peppered this forum about Ariane's past associations and suspect behaviors that they would make a huge big deal out of assuring their customers that 1) changes have been made to correct perceived mistakes of the past 2) or that they are under "new" management or both!! When large or small businesses have problems that affect their customer bases (unless your name is Microsoft or another Fortune 500 company), the really successful companies make huge efforts to inform the public that they have changed things, replaced the chairman of the board, ect., ect. or in some cases changed ownership hands for the better. DO SOMETHING to change the public's perceptions for god's sake!! What have they to hide?? Where has Ariane done this?? and if not, why not? Do they believe they can do business profitably under rumors about their past. I have never heard any such announcements from Ariane, has anyone else??? What else am I, a cautions potential customer, to think but it is business as usual at Ariane and that does not bode particularly well does it. Randy Jura, KPDX

I won't buy any more PMDG products for the same reason as you stated - this business of forcing customers to essentially pay for two products in order to get updates and fixes for the base package is deplorable. And after you pay $70 for everything there STILL is no inertial reference system modeled. I guess customers will have to shell out another $30 in the future for inertial nav modeleing, huh? PMDG is disgusting and I will never do business with them again. I'm certainly willing to give companies like Ariane a chance to compete, gosh knows this market needs this!!!

I think their deafening lack of response says it all.David

Oh, I think ultimately it's just a matter of demand. I agree heartily that there are some very iffy things about Ariane, and their pricing in particular. Having no support forum certainly doesn't help their image, however the only reason I ever had to contact them was to get some lost order #'s and they helped me just fine.I generally think PMDG IS a better company, with a more reasonably-priced, more complete product and a better support system. I love their sounds, modeling, virtual cockpits and cabins, and I think their textures - along with their near-perfect use of reflectivity - are absolutely gorgeous. HOWEVER, even their base model with 2d panel only, does noticeably hurt my framerates. Plus, their latest release isn't exactly cheap, either. Not when you can get Captain Sim's products or the Iron Knuckles & Jet City's Dc9's for around $35. Free liveries are great, too, but how many does any one flyer actually use? Plus, PMDG has a very unforgiving policy when it comes to refunds. (Not that Ariane doesn't.) Normally I would just ignore such a suspect company like Ariane, but my demands demand otherwise. They still have, in my opinion, the best looking/flying 737-300/400's that do not affect framerates at all on my system. And since I loooove 737-300's (especially in America West's old colors and United's Shuttle colors), I really have no choice but to patronize them. - Matt D.