What kind of GA airplane would you fly hard IFR?

[Gregg_Seipp 568]

By 'hard IFR' I mean, maybe 400 ft ceiling, maybe light rain, in the clouds for a couple of hours. I, sometimes, look at my ol' C182 and wonder what the conventional wisdom out there is.

 

Gregg

[Cessnaflyer 56]

I wouldn't call 400 feet hard IFR.

 

I regularly flew 182's and 172's in IFR down to published minimums. The only problem people have with that is that it is a single engine and most of the aircraft don't have back up vacuum systems. You have to accept the higher risk of the flight and plan everything you can to minimize those risks.

[Gregg_Seipp 568]

My flight instructor told me to never fly over water in a single and to never fly at night VFR. Some people will probably say he was being overly cautious...shrugs. I was just thinking about IFR with that as a backdrop. If you lose your engine at night it can be difficult to find a landing spot. If you're in the soup with a low ceiling...same problem.

[Cessnaflyer 56]

Same problem for a lot of piston twins. I got my multi-engine rating in a 1965 Beechcraft D95A Travel Air. The single engine ceiling was 4000' DA. We had to do single engine work early in the morning or else we would be sinking into the ground when the DA got higher. The joke was the second engine was there to take you to the scene of the crash.

 

If you lose your systems IFR you should know how to dead reckon your way to better weather. If you lose your engine then you can use minimum sink speed to make the descent and impact with the least amount of energy as possible. Most single GA can crash into terrain at around 40kts which is pretty slow and you should be able to walk away.

[Lowflyer 97]

My flight instructor told me to never fly over water in a single and to never fly at night VFR. Some people will probably say he was being overly cautious...shrugs.

 

There's this thing about flight instructors. They'll nag endlessly about flight safety and then they drive like maniacs on the way home. I believe the chance of an engine failing is less then the chance of you having a car accident on the way to the airport. Still, none of my instructors have ever tried to discourage me from flying VFR at night or flying over water. At the end of the day it's your choice. If you feel it's safe enough and you believe you can handle an emergency, fly, but if in doubt, back out.

 

To answer the original question: I'd fly anything that's certified and runs on 100LL. Not so sure when it comes to piston engines running on Jet A1.

 

 

Edit: I can't speak for present company of course, but all my previous instructors have either had car accidents or had their licences temporarily revoked at some point. That doesn't mean I disregard their advice on flight safety though.

[LAdamson 240]

If you lose your systems IFR you should know how to dead reckon your way to better weather.

 

These days, backup systems are readily available. Some cheap, & some expensive. They range from six pac panel depictions on portable GPS's, to small electronic flight displays..........using solid state gyros & accelerometers. At least, it's just doesn't have to be a case of partial panel anymore. And best of all, these devices, including six pac depictions work very well. For that matter, just a handheld, battery operated GPS makes all the difference. My GPS's have always been powered off the aircraft, but have batteries too.

 

L.Adamson

[Gregg_Seipp 568]

These days, backup systems are readily available. Some cheap, & some expensive. They range from six pac panel depictions on portable GPS's, to small electronic flight displays..........using solid state gyros & accelerometers.

 

That's really cool!

[Oracle427 45]

About those fancy backup systems...

 

I was in a C172 G1000 on the ground. I just completed my run up and was configuring for takeoff when I smelled insulation burning.

 

Before I could think about what I was going to do, a loud buzzing came through the headset, both the PFD and MFD starting flickering like mad and I immediately shut down the master and standby electrical.

 

The circuit for the starter malfunctioned and a relay started switching on and off causing the buzzing and display flckering. Thankfully no avionics were damaged and it all happened on the ground. I think the only reason I caught a whiff of the burning insulation was because of the window being open.

 

All I had left was a "3-pack" airspeed, vacuum attitude indicator and an altimeter on the bottom center of the panel along with the whiskey compass. Not the end of the world in VFR, but not good at all if in IFR.

[Great Ozzie 101]

I wouldn't call 400 feet hard IFR.

 

Neither would I... I'd say 200 and a 1/2 (viz).

 

My flight instructor told me to never fly over water in a single and to never fly at night VFR.

 

The water thingy I can agree with (as per regs) and not putting yourself in a situation where you don't have an out. Not talking about something like flying up the East side of Chicago (like when one went to Meigs) or say flying into KOSH Rwy 27 as you had to fly over the lake then (Lake Michigan in both cases).

 

The "night VFR" I am a bit :rolleyes: as you better be prepared to live with the limitation “Night flying prohibited” on your certificate. Some of my best / most memorable flights have been at night (starting when I was a Student).

 

I regularly flew 182's and 172's in IFR down to published minimums.

 

Same here... whatever the school had that was IFR capable... well, no C182 did we have... weapon of choice was a Warrior II. I would just :Praying: for those days when a warm front would pass thru and drop things as low as you could go. Of course you had an out if it went sub-Cat I (an airport further East).

 

The only problem people have with that is that it is a single engine and most of the aircraft don't have back up vacuum systems. You have to accept the higher risk of the flight and plan everything you can to minimize those risks.

 

Exactly... I would tell my students "Flying is life... and life is flying" for just the reason you mention Chris. A smart person acknowleges, takes on and minimizes risk in every day life.

 

Btw... "accept the higher risk" and make sure you are current partial panel! :P

 

They'll nag endlessly about flight safety and then they drive like maniacs on the way home.

 

Oh hush! Anyway I drive an F-250HD!

 

Hope all is well btw Rolf. :Big Grin:

 

If you feel it's safe enough and you believe you can handle an emergency, fly, but if in doubt, back out.

 

Good advice... if not sure, you just made your (No-Go) decision.

 

but all my previous instructors have either had car accidents or had their licences temporarily revoked at some point.

 

I've had one accident and not my fault! I was driving "my" (ok the county's) two-tone brown Sheriff's car and a person ran into me! Really! I had witnesses!

 

Man... I cannot imagine having any license suspended or revoked! I pray it never happens.

[ZachLW 37]

I fly regularly at night--both VFR and IFR. I hate it...

 

As for the best IFR platform: any well rigged /G aircraft with an HSI sure makes things easy. Extended tanks are important to me for lower IFR when I can use such an aircraft... Autopilot makes it that much better. So the real answer is: any expensive well equipped aircraft!

[LAdamson 240]

About those fancy backup systems...

 

I was in a C172 G1000 on the ground. I just completed my run up and was configuring for takeoff when I smelled insulation burning.

 

Before I could think about what I was going to do, a loud buzzing came through the headset, both the PFD and MFD starting flickering like mad and I immediately shut down the master and standby electrical.

 

The circuit for the starter malfunctioned and a relay started switching on and off causing the buzzing and display flckering. Thankfully no avionics were damaged and it all happened on the ground. I think the only reason I caught a whiff of the burning insulation was because of the window being open.

 

All I had left was a "3-pack" airspeed, vacuum attitude indicator and an altimeter on the bottom center of the panel along with the whiskey compass. Not the end of the world in VFR, but not good at all if in IFR.

 

As I said previously,

 

It's wonderful, what just a "cheap" backup can do. Especially, one that is "also" battery operated and can function independent of the aircraft's power.

The days of "what happens when we loose the vacuum system", or the main electricals...................have long passed.

 

L.Adamson

[Gregg_Seipp 568]

The "night VFR" I am a bit :rolleyes: as you better be prepared to live with the limitation “Night flying prohibited” on your certificate.

 

That's not on my cert. Also, what 'over-water' regs are you referring to? Not that I'm planning on doing either...a regulation doesn't dictate good sense.

 

And, for the record, I have a truck and a mini-van...LOL.

[Great Ozzie 101]

And, for the record, I have a truck and a mini-van...LOL.

 

B)

 

That's not on my cert. Also, what 'over-water' regs are you referring to? Not that I'm planning on doing either...a regulation doesn't dictate good sense.

 

Then you must have had night training?

 

over water: 91.205 & 91.509

 

Regs can't "make you smart" but they can sure save you some grief if you abide by them. They can also be a beginning pointing toward good sense... like having a minimum 1hr fuel remaining (after landing) instead of the 30 /45 min in the regs.

[Cessnaflyer 56]

The days of "what happens when we loose the vacuum system", or the main electricals...................have long passed.

 

That would be nice if it was true. The transport aircraft I just moved from still used gyros.

[Gregg_Seipp 568]

Then you must have had night training?

 

 

Yepper.