Interesting Scenery Problem around Seattle area

[gwillmot 31]

I have recently developed a rather bizarre and unexplained problem. Up to this point, I have had no problems with FS2004 nor airports in and around Seattle.

 

I went to create a flight out of KSEA and I noticed that the only option available was the default runway. I chose it, and the simulator hung up at 25% memory and I had to close FS9.exe via the control panel. I have since created flights in other areas with no problem. My most recent flight was out of Portland. I took off on runway 27, destination Billings, MT. When the plane made a North turn to start heading East, the simulator froze, and I had to do another 3-finger salute. I then went in and chose the flight just terminated (I have utility to save flight at intervals) and everything worked fine until that same point.

 

I closed FS2004 and reopened, attempting to start a flight at Boeing field in Seattle - same result ...... could only choose default runway and FS2004 froze. I tried to start a flight from Yelm, Washington (SE from Seattle by about 70 miles) with same result. I have changed Seasons back to Summer and that didn't help either.

 

Other places seem to start up fine except the Seattle (West Washington) area. I guess I can just ignore this area, but I sure would like to get it back. I can't give you any clue as to the last time I flew to/from the Seattle area. Like I said, I can start in Porland fine as well as Vancouver. Any ideas?

 

gwillmot

[Dave Morgan 68]

Hi.

 

A couple of things come to mind. Judging by some of your other posts you already know more than I do about FS9 generally but... north turn from Portland, and flying from Yelm towards Seattle: 70 nm (and presumably closing) suggests the problem is occurring at about AI spawning distance from KSEA or a nearby field. Have you tried flying the same routes with no AI (disabled rather than just 0 %), or at other times of day? Details escape me but I had a problem about a year ago that was caused by using [some user aircraft, may have been a Project Airbus model-- hazy memory...] for AI, which led to freezes & black screens whenever I came within spawning distance of that particular AI aircraft. The odd thing is that it still worked fine as a user plane.

 

Having typed that, though, the single runway thing seems a bit odd and doesn't necessarily tally with the AI idea. Has somelthing corrupted your KSEA afcad?

 

And to muddy things a little more, I've seen references, in other threads, to addons affecting unexpected airports on the other side of the world. Have you added or modified any layers recently?

 

Sorry-- more questions than help, but they may give your thoughts somewhere to start.

 

Cheers,

D

[Flyboy49 10]

Hi; I realise that you are quite proficient at FS9, however i have a solution that worked for me in very similar circunstances. I had played with my scenery cfg. file and messed it up quite badly. I moved it from the fs9 folder and renamed the old scenery cfg. to just scenery and my problems at KSEA and surrounding areas went away. Worth trying for you maybe. Regards David

[gwillmot 31]

Hi.

 

A couple of things come to mind. Judging by some of your other posts you already know more than I do about FS9 generally but... north turn from Portland, and flying from Yelm towards Seattle: 70 nm (and presumably closing) suggests the problem is occurring at about AI spawning distance from KSEA or a nearby field. Have you tried flying the same routes with no AI (disabled rather than just 0 %), or at other times of day? Details escape me but I had a problem about a year ago that was caused by using [some user aircraft, may have been a Project Airbus model-- hazy memory...] for AI, which led to freezes & black screens whenever I came within spawning distance of that particular AI aircraft. The odd thing is that it still worked fine as a user plane.

 

Having typed that, though, the single runway thing seems a bit odd and doesn't necessarily tally with the AI idea. Has somelthing corrupted your KSEA afcad?

 

And to muddy things a little more, I've seen references, in other threads, to addons affecting unexpected airports on the other side of the world. Have you added or modified any layers recently?

 

Sorry-- more questions than help, but they may give your thoughts somewhere to start.

 

Cheers,

D

 

Dave,

Thanks for the reply. I've gone through backups to my PC for 2 months and still have the problem. Apparantly, I added something that caused the problem. Since I don't record what/when I've added, it appears that I'm going to have to start systematically deactivating scenery and checking to see If I can find the culprit. I've been using Ultimate Traffic since it came out with no other AI addons. I really don't think that's it in my case.

As for the knowing alot about FS9, apparently I don't know enough or I'd not be in this shape. Thank goodness for the combined "brains" of the forums!

 

gwillmot

 

Hi; I realise that you are quite proficient at FS9, however i have a solution that worked for me in very similar circunstances. I had played with my scenery cfg. file and messed it up quite badly. I moved it from the fs9 folder and renamed the old scenery cfg. to just scenery and my problems at KSEA and surrounding areas went away. Worth trying for you maybe. Regards David

 

Thanks for the tip. I not really THAT proficient at FS9, and wasn't aware that the system would rebuild the scenery.cfg file. I assume that what you meant by moving it out of the FS9 folder. I'll give it a try and let everyone know how it turns out.

 

gwillmot

[N60JBravo 27]

wasn't aware that the system would rebuild the scenery.cfg file.

It won't, FS9 will not start without a scenery.cfg.

 

The suggestion was to move the scenery.cfg out of the root FS9 folder.

 

Then go back to the FS9 folder and rename oldscenery.cfg to scenery.cfg.

 

Then test.

 

regards,

Joe

[gwillmot 31]

It won't, FS9 will not start without a scenery.cfg.

 

The suggestion was to move the scenery.cfg out of the root FS9 folder.

 

Then go back to the FS9 folder and rename oldscenery.cfg to scenery.cfg.

 

Then test.

 

regards,

Joe

 

Thought so. I"ll give it a try.

 

gwillmot

[gwillmot 31]

Well,

 

The oldscenery to scenery.cfg trick is not going to work as I had been trying to rearrange layers earlier in an attempt to clear up the problem. I just deactivated my sceneries by sections to try to locate an offending scenery that is locking up the Washington state area - no luck there either.

 

It's strange that something is hanging FS9 if I attempt to choose an airport in that area. Once I attempt to do so, trying to choose another airport in another part of the country only yields that airport showing the default runway option, and hanging up FS9 if I try to choose it. If I then close (have to 3-finger to do so)/reopen FS9, I can go to the same airport in another part of the country and all runway/gate options are available and I have no trouble starting from my choice. FS9 closes normally at the end of my flight.

 

I'm giving up for now as it's not imperitive that I access KSEA and surrounds to enjoy flying. It's just one of those things that I know will end up driving me crazy in the middle of the night!

 

gwillmot

[mebull 27]

I closed FS2004 and reopened, attempting to start a flight at Boeing field in Seattle - same result ...... could only choose default runway and FS2004 froze. I tried to start a flight from Yelm, Washington (SE from Seattle by about 70 miles) with same result. I have changed Seasons back to Summer and that didn't help either.

 

If you have third party afcads and or scenery for the Seattle vicinity I would suggest that you disable the scenery and temporarily remove the afcads from FS9. Have you checked for duplicate afcads? I you have no duplicates, and other local afcads are removed, and scenery disabled, that leaves only scenery from other areas as the cause. However in your statement that I quoted above you say you could only choose the default runway - ( no parking spots to select? ) that implies a fault with the airport file(s) for KSEA or a nearby airport that is causing a loss of some airport facility data. A failure to start a selected flight is one symptom of duplicate afcads. A FS program crash when flying into the area is another.

 

Flightzone Portland installed? There are known issues that affect the KSEA area.

 

If none of this helps then the next step would be to disable all scenery addons and the Addon Scenery in the library. That would leave you with only the default airports as they are provided by FS in the main Scenery folders, for example, KSEA = Scenery / Namw / AP915150.bgl. If (another if) after all of this, you still have not been able to start a flight at KSEA and at least select a default parking space or see them listed, then the only remaining cause would be the file named above. I do think that you will probably get things working before you have to go this far. The problem then will be to isolate the exact file that is the culprit. Reactivate bits at a time until the problem returns then locate the culprit from what you just reactivated.

 

BTW: all of the stock airports at Yelm Washington; 49WA, 0WA0 and 92W are also contained in the AP915150.bgl so whatever the problem is that affects KSEA is affecting them as well. Try starting a flight at KPAE. KPAE is in AP915140.bgl just to see what happens.

 

I hope this helps you out some and gets FS9 healthy again.

 

Regards,

Mel

[gwillmot 31]

If you have third party afcads and or scenery for the Seattle vicinity I would suggest that you disable the scenery and temporarily remove the afcads from FS9. Have you checked for duplicate afcads? I you have no duplicates, and other local afcads are removed, and scenery disabled, that leaves only scenery from other areas as the cause. However in your statement that I quoted above you say you could only choose the default runway - ( no parking spots to select? ) that implies a fault with the airport file(s) for KSEA or a nearby airport that is causing a loss of some airport facility data. A failure to start a selected flight is one symptom of duplicate afcads. A FS program crash when flying into the area is another.

 

Flightzone Portland installed? There are known issues that affect the KSEA area.

 

If none of this helps then the next step would be to disable all scenery addons and the Addon Scenery in the library. That would leave you with only the default airports as they are provided by FS in the main Scenery folders, for example, KSEA = Scenery / Namw / AP915150.bgl. If (another if) after all of this, you still have not been able to start a flight at KSEA and at least select a default parking space or see them listed, then the only remaining cause would be the file named above. I do think that you will probably get things working before you have to go this far. The problem then will be to isolate the exact file that is the culprit. Reactivate bits at a time until the problem returns then locate the culprit from what you just reactivated.

 

BTW: all of the stock airports at Yelm Washington; 49WA, 0WA0 and 92W are also contained in the AP915150.bgl so whatever the problem is that affects KSEA is affecting them as well. Try starting a flight at KPAE. KPAE is in AP915140.bgl just to see what happens.

 

I hope this helps you out some and gets FS9 healthy again.

 

Regards,

Mel

 

Mel,

 

1. I have tried removing FlyTampa Seattle and associated AFCAD - samea result. I know AFCAD is OK since displays properly in FSNavigator after creating database. Haven't changed and worked for years. It even shows the 3rd runway addition that was added to Seatlle.

 

2. Checked for and found no active duplicate AFCADs for KSEA

 

3. You are correct that only "Active Runway" choice is available for KSEA ..... no other runways or parking spaces. I have reinstalled KSEA to insure that any corrupted file would be taken care of ...... same result.

 

4. I have Flightzone Portland installed and it has coexisted with KSEA for years with no problems.

 

5. I have already done the systematic inactivating as I described in a previous response. I could not find anything that could be the culprit. That really stymies me.

 

6. I CAN start a flight from KPAE. I can choose all options for runways and gates with no problem. FS9 also shuts down "normally". I think you may be onto something. I'll just have to find AP915150.bgl on the original disks and copy over and see what happens.

 

gwillmot

[gwillmot 31]

Well, I copied AP915150.bgl from my original disk and that didn't help either.

 

However, I really think Mel is correct when he states that whatever the "problem" is, it is affecting airports found in AP915150.bgl. It even goes so far as to hang up the simulator. Now what that might be, I have no clue. I've tried approaching KSEA and surrounds from the North, East, and South and FS9 hangs some distance from Seattle. I have no idea of the exact distance as FS9 is frozen and can't access that or FSNavigator.

 

I really appreciate the advise from everyone who has responded. Maybe the light bulb will go off with someone will crack this case. In the mean time, all is well by simply avoiding the afflicted area.

 

gwillmot

[gwillmot 31]

Maybe the light bulb will go off with someone will crack this case. In the mean time, all is well by simply avoiding the afflicted area.

 

I'm sure someone will eventually help you out. It has to have happened to someone else in the past. Hang in there.

[mebull 27]

2. Checked for and found no active duplicate AFCADs for KSEA

 

It could be a duplicate AFCAD file for any airport covered in the AP915150.bgl but not to likely, because they wouldn't remove data. Try KBFI and see if there is data removed there also, same as KSEA, you might try KRNT and KTCM while you are at it just to see if they are the same as KSEA, or just crash the sim like 49WA etc.

 

Any properly or improperly constructed and compiled AFCAD will have priority over the same airport in the relevant APxxxxxx.bgl file. In the case of AP915150.bgl I would dismiss that as the problem. I suppose a duplicate AFCAD could still be the problem. (It would have to be really messed up though, causing a problem over such a large area.)

To summarize; Even if the AP915150.bgl were bad any third party AFCAD(s) would over ride. I would be surprised that a duplicate would cause the loss of airport data such as at KSEA. Usually you would notice things such as AI taxing in places where the was no taxiway or parking in odd place according to the scenery you are viewing.

 

If you don't have it there is a small program available here at AVSIM called "ScanAFD" : http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=ScanAFD&CatID=root&Go=Search

that you might want to run just to make sure of no duplicates. *** some add on scenery files for taxi signs may show up as a duplicate AFCAD - these are not a problem ***

 

After going over all of this with you and what you have checked I am only left with the conclusion that the cause may be a VTP type file from a scenery bgl somewhere. For example a VTPX which is used to exclude airport data and other polygons (not the typical exclude for objects like trees and buildings) if improperly constructed could cause damage to airports over a large area. Such a file might be undiscovered if it was placed in one of the Scenery / nnnnnn scenery folders.

 

If you have Ultimate Terrain USA installed as well as your Flightzone Portland you would be seeing multiple coastlines and such and FS9 crashes, but no AP data loss, so I agree that you are okay there with or without UTUSA.

 

So, a really bad / corrupted AFCAD somewhere or a poorly designed VTP type file somewhere. I have some scenery for KTCM McChord AFB that had a bad VTPL.bgl (lines) in it. Even when starting at Seattle as soon as the plane was pointed anywhere near KTCM or I looked in that direction from the ground or air I would get a CTD. In my case I didn't suffer any airport data loss, because a VTPL does not exclude anyhting. This is just a example of how far reaching the problem can be.

 

You never stated whether the airports, 49WA, 0WA0 and 92W were the stock airports or modified. The fact that your FS8 was crashing there doesn't necessarily imply a problem with those airports themselves, more likely they just happen to be within the 'draw range' of what is causing the problem. Those three stock airports are nothing more than a flatten poly, a airport background poly - maybe, a visual runway, starts and basic comm data. Hah! I just started a flight at 0WA0, it doesn't even have a flatten. Neither does 92W. Note also the farthest one from KSEA is 36.5 nm. Try to start a flight at WA41 and see if you still get the FS9 crash, maybe we can determine the area affected. We know KPAE is okay so that is approximately the northern limit. Try to determine the east, south and west limits.

 

If you are absolutely certain that the FlyTampa AFCAD is okay and that when you reinstalled, you first removed all remaing remenents of the old install ( I'm sure you did ). Then about the only thing that could overide the AFCAD and cause FS9 to crash is an AFCAD file (duplicate) with higher priorty or a VTPX file that covers a large area. The only two ways I am aware of to overide stock AP data and or third party AFCAD files.

 

Best regards,

Mel

[gwillmot 31]

Mel,

 

Thanks again for your insight. At this point, I've tried all I know to do, and the rest if well beyond my expertise. The "problem" is well defined to the area previously mentioned, so I'll just avoid that area. After all, there's a whole world out there to explore. I'll just stay calm and try to adjust until the day someone has the same/similar situation and comes up with the cure.

 

gwillmot

[Hoochy 6]

Hi ,

I had this problem a while back and discovered it was a bgl file in another freeware scenery far away from Seattle. Im racking my brains trying to remember the scenery file but in any case what you can do is disable (not delete) each scenery file one by one and then check the Seattle situation. Hopefully its something you added recently and you will find it quickly. Once found delete it and it should be ok then..

 

All the best, John

 

It was London City. Here was my reply to the problem in 2011.. hope this is the problem you have as its easy to fix..

 

Bang on about the London City scenery. I had the same problem tonight and disabled the LC Scenery and its ok now. Here is the offending file details. rgds JOhn[Area.095]Title=london cityLocal=Addon Scenery\london city\sceneryRemote=Active=FALSERequired=FALSELayer=95Found it. It was a London City freeware scenery that caused my problem..

[gwillmot 31]

Hi ,

I had this problem a while back and discovered it was a bgl file in another freeware scenery far away from Seattle. Im racking my brains trying to remember the scenery file but in any case what you can do is disable (not delete) each scenery file one by one and then check the Seattle situation. Hopefully its something you added recently and you will find it quickly. Once found delete it and it should be ok then..

 

All the best, John

 

It was London City. Here was my reply to the problem in 2011.. hope this is the problem you have as its easy to fix..

 

Bang on about the London City scenery. I had the same problem tonight and disabled the LC Scenery and its ok now. Here is the offending file details. rgds JOhn[Area.095]Title=london cityLocal=Addon Scenery\london city\sceneryRemote=Active=FALSERequired=FALSELayer=95Found it. It was a London City freeware scenery that caused my problem..

 

John,

 

Thanks for your insight, but I'm using the London City Airport scenery included in the VisualFlight London package. I disabled, but there is still a problem. I'm sure it's a solution like you mentioned, but I haven't been able to track it down yet.

 

Glenn