How much of the flight can be automated with a good payware plane/FMS?

[cptawsom 19]

You mean the MD-11 has automation features the 737 doesn't have? Could you elaborate a bit?

 

Of course. The MD-11 is very airbus-like (actually MD copied almost everything in avionics, FBW, and software from the A320 and A330).

 

- you don't need to set the pressurization (as in an aircraft initially designed in the 60s -> aka B737)

- you don't need to manually tune VORs or ILS (as in an aircraft initially designed in the 60s -> aka B737)

- you don't need to deactivate the packs for take-off and then reactivate them (not even B747-400 does this)

- you don't need to enter the GPS coordinates (not even B747-400 does this)

- you don't need to enter the reference airport (not even B747-400 does this)

 

So an MD-11 is very like an Airbus -> you do not waste your time and thinking with trivial, superficial and superfluous things that are so for granted, that should be done automatically.

 

It is much more technologically advanced than Boeings, very close to by far the most technologically advanced aircraft of our era -> the Airbuses.

[LMF5000 0]

 

 

Of course. The MD-11 is very airbus-like (actually MD copied almost everything in avionics, FBW, and software from the A320 and A330).

 

- you don't need to set the pressurization (as in an aircraft initially designed in the 60s -> aka B737)

- you don't need to manually tune VORs or ILS (as in an aircraft initially designed in the 60s -> aka B737)

- you don't need to deactivate the packs for take-off and then reactivate them (not even B747-400 does this)

- you don't need to enter the GPS coordinates (not even B747-400 does this)

- you don't need to enter the reference airport (not even B747-400 does this)

 

So an MD-11 is very like an Airbus -> you do not waste your time and thinking with trivial, superficial and superfluous things that are so for granted, that should be done automatically.

 

It is much more technologically advanced than Boeings, very close to by far the most technologically advanced aircraft of our era -> the Airbuses.

 

Now this is interesting! Couple small questions:

 

1. How does the airbus set pressurisation? Does it use cruise and landing field altitudes from the cruise altitude and destination airport set in the FMS?

 

2. What do you mean by "reference airport" and when do you need GPS coordinates on a normal Boeing (except for initial INS pos init)?

 

3. Is there a good A319/20/21 for FSX that models everything (i.e. a PMDG-like model)?

 

4. Not related, but if GPS were to fail, does the FMC on any of these aircraft have the ability to navigate using the older methods? (like VOR/NDB/ADF)?

[xplanery 250]

 

3. Is there a good A319/20/21 for FSX that models everything (i.e. a PMDG-like model)?

 

Not yet, but probably in a few months FSLabs is going to release their A320&A321 simulation and will be extremely good, comparable to PMDG 737NGX it seems.

[LMF5000 0]

Not yet, but probably in a few months FSLabs is going to release their A320&A321 simulation and will be extremely good, comparable to PMDG 737NGX it seems.

 

:(. Too bad. What's the best one currently available? And how bad is it?

 

I suppose a good 787, 777 and A380 are also out of the question? (Except for the PMDG 777 that should come out eventually)

[Taipan 30]

Aerosoft are releasing their Airbus X Extended soon, it will be good enough for most people.

[wims80 121]

....

 

4. Not related, but if GPS were to fail, does the FMC on any of these aircraft have the ability to navigate using the older methods? (like VOR/NDB/ADF)?

You hardtune them through the MCDU

[LMF5000 0]

Hi guys. LMF again. I have a small question about FMS programming the PMDG MD-11 (yeah, this thread inspired me to go out and get it...).

 

I'm working through tutorial 1, and they naturally program the route to go from airway to airway. My question is, is there a way to program it to go directly (in a straight line) from the last fix in the SID to the first fix in the STAR without bothering to enter any airways in between? Would I be able to do this without messing up the auto climb/descent profile?

 

P.S. I know it's not realistic, but this being a simulator I sometimes want to do a quick 'n dirty flight between two random airports and I wouldn't feel like finding airway maps and figuring out a route. In lesser planes I normally just use the GPS "direct to" button and then enter the STAR using the PROC button...

[Kosta 122]

Don't know about MD11 any more, as I didn't fly it a long time, but used to before, I do sometimes quick-n-dirty in the NGX, I set dep/arr airport, then set the sid and star for each, that I gotta look up, or know it by heart for known airports, and just connect the fixes., deleting the discontinuity.

[cptawsom 19]

Hi guys. LMF again. I have a small question about FMS programming the PMDG MD-11 (yeah, this thread inspired me to go out and get it...).

 

I'm working through tutorial 1, and they naturally program the route to go from airway to airway. My question is, is there a way to program it to go directly (in a straight line) from the last fix in the SID to the first fix in the STAR without bothering to enter any airways in between? Would I be able to do this without messing up the auto climb/descent profile?

 

That's what I do, all the time.

 

Yes it is very easy.

 

 

1. Go to FL-PLN.

 

2. Select the origin airport waypoint.

 

3. Select departure runway. Select SID. Select SID transition. Press INSERT.

 

4. You will see now that the waypoint of the origin airport has been replaced by the series -> DEP-RW -> SID -> TRAN -> (T/C) -> (T/D).

 

5. Select the dest. airport waypoint.

 

6. Select approach. Select STAR. Press INSERT. Select approach transition.

 

7. Now in the FL-PLN many waypoints have been added (SID -> TRN -> APPR -> RW) after the waypoint of the dest. airport. You should delete now this waypoint.

 

8. Delete all discontunuities.

 

9. Most times now you should be OK, but check on your ND in flight-plan mode, if there is a continuous line between orig->dest. If there isn't go to the waypoint that gets cut off, and into its properties type the name of your next waypoint, at the entry where it says "next waypoint". A new line will be drawn on the ND and the "circle" will be "complete-closed".

 

10. You are ready.

 

[LMF5000 0]

OK, I managed to get lateral navigation to work perfectly with that method. But something is wrong with the vertical flight profile - if I just leave the altitude control in "prof" mode, it descends way too slowly (after passing the top of descent point), so I end up approaching the runway still at 10,000 feet unless I intervene manually - and it does not request extra drag.

 

I would have the profile set up as described, with the flight plan something like this:

<last SID point> 4000 feet

T/C FL370

T/D FL370

<first STAR point> 2500 feet

 

I set the autopilot altitude knob to 2500 feet during cruise and pressed the "prof" button a couple of times, but when it hit the descent point it would barely descend, oscillating between 0 and 500fpm.

Am I programming something wrong? I also had a similar problem in tutorial 1 though in that case the plane DID ask for extra drag and I managed to make it to the airport using gear and spoilers to slow down.

[Taipan 30]

2500ft would be more like the last STAR point rather than the first. Could be the ILS intercept etc, and you should calculate it above ground level (AGL)

 

Remember to check aerodrome elevation, there are many inland airports at 4000feet and higher, you can't navigate through the STAR at 2500 in that case.

 

For your problem of not descending, what is the vert annunciation saying in the top right of the PFD? Is it PROF or something else?

 

Also for doing your plans quickly, why not just copy existing routes? It's easy just download vRoute, then import the flight plans it generates from previous routes. FSBuild is better to process the routes from vRoute but you don't need it if you are happy to accept the exact route someone else flew.

[FlyGeordie 17]

Not a good sign (for education): people who mistake the Belgian flag for the German one.

 

Actually, it is impossible to tell from the image, whether it is the German or Belgian flag, because you cannot ascertain whether the flag is seen in a horizontal or vertical position. To me it looks more like the 'German' position.

[cptawsom 19]

OK, I managed to get lateral navigation to work perfectly with that method. But something is wrong with the vertical flight profile - if I just leave the altitude control in "prof" mode, it descends way too slowly (after passing the top of descent point), so I end up approaching the runway still at 10,000 feet unless I intervene manually - and it does not request extra drag.

 

This has nothing to do with the vertical profile.

 

Even if you had put an airway in the lateral plan, those extra lateral waypoints would not have an altitude restriction. So they would not have influenced your descent profile.

 

The MD-11 needs a lot of help with drag (fully extended spoilers) to descend. This happens especially if you have strong headwinds. It will tell you so with a message "ADD DRAG" on your ND. You can see it also on the "yo-yo" if you are above the optimal descent path.

 

Also put a cost index of 50. Is it a good value to prevent tendencies to overspeed both in climb (if the aircraft is too light) and in descent, and also being close to stall speed during climb if the aircraft is near the maximum take-off weight.

[LMF5000 0]

The MD-11 needs a lot of help with drag (fully extended spoilers) to descend. This happens especially if you have strong headwinds. It will tell you so with a message "ADD DRAG" on your ND. You can see it also on the "yo-yo" if you are above the optimal descent path.

 

I'm still new at this, so I'll just believe that this is normal behavour, but if I'd been designing the flight management system, I'd have put in at least one mode that starts descent early enough to go from TOD to the airfield using idle power all the way and no spoilers - there's no better way to save fuel IMHO (except for maybe turning off the centre (#2) engine!).

 

Also put a cost index of 50. Is it a good value to prevent tendencies to overspeed both in climb (if the aircraft is too light) and in descent, and also being close to stall speed during climb if the aircraft is near the maximum take-off weight.

 

Hmm. I put in a cost index of 200 to cruise at M0.85. Maybe that's what put things out of whack. I think you might have found the solution! I'll try again and report on my findings.

[FloG 148]

Actually, it is impossible to tell from the image, whether it is the German or Belgian flag, because you cannot ascertain whether the flag is seen in a horizontal or vertical position. To me it looks more like the 'German' position.

Actually, it is possible to tell: if the stripes are "long" ad "thin", it's the German one, if they're "short" and "thick", it is the Belgian one.

Also note, that the order of the colors is different: It's black-yellow/gold-red on the Belgian, but black-red-yellow/gold on the German flag!

And thus, it definitely is the Belgian one.

 

Sorry for being off-topic, I just wanted to clarify this!

 

Regards,

Flo