Not going to hijack Efrains post or diminish his enthusiasm, will start my own post.

 

Single house / residential data is not available on the web as far as I know in .shp data (.osm is far too incomplete), we haven't found any yet, certainly not for Canada. Only commercial / industrial and it requires a ton of editing due to it's inaccuracies. That's one of the drawbacks of the current system, many full residential areas are just the "streets" in Xplane, no houses to be seen, or it's far too inaccurate. Efrain is one of the lucky few (with his data source), and I'm not discrediting what can be done, only stating the current fact of the limited data available. It's certainly one thing turning folks away. Their unhappy with the autogen system, and it's lack of accuracy. I'm not so concerned with it's absolute accuracy, it needs to be close, but full residential areas without even a home visible is kind of distracting to say the least.

 

Again, if someone can point me in the direction of data containing the same level of residential quality that Efrain has, and is readily available to the public (extremely important) now, please show me where to get it. My Xplane world is still "bleak" in most areas. Then we can make others aware of the location of the (complete) data as well, so they can enhance / fill their own favourite flying locations using OSM2XP.

 

To fill / edit OpenStreetMap with hundreds of thousands of residential homes / industrial,commercial areas is not a task for the Xplane end user, although I believe that to be LR's vision / answer. If you live in a country where your government is involved, or some agency, your lucky, most are not.

 

Thanks

 

Glen

 

p.s. Only reply if you have a direct solution to the problem, the problems existence is not up for debate, we all know it exists, I won't argue that fact, with anyone. All I want is viable solutions, accurate data, for the everyday user of Xplane to enhance their flying world. I know it doesn't exist (that I can find), tell / show us where we can get it today.

 

Got it!

 

It's all about making Xplane better.

I don't know about your hometown, but some adventurous person(s) did some parts of Antarctica

 

 

Yes osm data is poor for most of the world, so automatic generation from a footprint source won't be possible for most of the world...

 

I'm currently working on a project that take the problem from another approach.

 

We have a big community. We are spending a lot of time working on enhancing our sims.

I think that if you take the time spent by people on tools like osm2xp/whatever, numbers would be frightening.

 

So here's what i have in mind:

 

-divide the world in 1/1° squares (as xplane does).

-people make handmade sceneries for those tiles, using tools when possible.

-Offer a web application to let people upload/manage those tiles, and users download them.

-Make an app to easily sync your xplane files with the files available on this repository.

 

That's what i'm working on these days, and when the webapp will be finished, i will work for my area (i'm a student pilot on LFPZ), i'll go take pictures, make 3D objects, work to enhance osm data etc, and i'll publish the scenery for this/these tiles.

 

Even if an area is empty in osm, if you work for a goal of a single tile, you could make it in a few days/weeks.

IF a lot of people contribute to a repository like this, we could have something huge for our sim.

 

(old screens of the first proof of concept test attached)

Hi Ben, nice to see you around.

 

First off, great idea, but so was the original, it just doesn't work on a global scale.

 

I fail to see any difference to what is currently available. Folks are not flocking to fill osm with edits, they don't have the time or desire, how is this going to be any different? I can easily get "data" into Xplane now, the problem is the lack of data. The responsibility is still going to be on the end user to "provide" this data, and it simply isn't happening. There needs to be a way of collecting vast amounts of "existing" data from an outside source, without relying on end users to provide it. I'm not spending hundreds of hours to edit any more than I already have, most others won't as well. The problem still remains, the data is not available.

 

Whether we use your new approach or use the existing OSM approach, I see no difference. The onus is still on the end user to "fill" the Xplane world, great concept, although it's failing miserably for most of the world and will continue to do so. People sit back and say the concept is great, and it is, but how many actually spend hundreds of hours providing the much needed data editing, not enough. So, although the concepts are great, it's doomed to fail relying on end users. I think Xplane "users" over estimate it's "die hard" user base. The casual user is not going to give you / us any editing time, none. They don't care enough.

 

It could work if the community was 10x what it is now (just a random figure), but the community is never going to grow to that level until there are changes to Xplane. Not trying to be a downer, just a realist, the ideas are great, but require a lot of input from the end user, and there aren’t enough of them. It's almost a can't win situation without "big" changes to bring more users into the Xplane world. Make the changes, the users will come, and hopefully so will the editing of data. Without changes, nothing is going to change, the user base required to make this work won't materialize, and the same old problems will still persist.

 

Your not going to get this, without the other, change has to be the first priority, then this might have a chance to flourish. The user base isn't here yet, and won't be without a lot of change.

 

Glen

Well if there is a way to have a work made together, i would help.

I think others may too.

 

If there is no data available, i don't see how we could do, the only way is to make it ourselves.

It may take a lot of time, but if people are willing to work together, then it would be possible.

 

There are maybe dozen of people that want to have the same area as you , power rely on number

And btw the openStreetMap community is great, maybe that if you start to map buildings, talk about it on osm mailing list , they would be happy to help .

Some public institutions have data , but aren't sharing it because they don't see the point, maybe with a few mails you can get some, i think osm community can be of a valuable help on this kind of stuff.

 

But yeah, osm isn't perfect, you're totaly right on it, it's not the perfect data source for flight simulators, far from it.

But it's already a damn great thing for some part of the world , i wouldn't have hoped something like a few years back.

 

I know this project (scenery repo ) is a bit of an utopia, but who knows, maybe this project will boost the community to work on a common goal, a realist world wide scenery.

Ben, I totally agree with everything you say, I'm just a "glass half empty" kind of guy. I applaud you for your work, and wish it would work as "great" as the vision is.

 

I'm not saying it can't work, I'm saying it's not going to work, with the limited user base Xplane has, and will continue to have. Things need to change to build the user base, to allow your great ideas to come to life.

 

The problem is, the users are not going to come without the change first, there just not. Too many people are still sitting on the outside waiting for "something", because Xplane is still not "it". It most certainly can be, but still isn't. How long are we going to have to wait, years? It's great to see another developer come on board, but it's more aircraft. I'm not saying more aircraft isn't good, but it's all the other missing parts that are keeping most of the "new" users away, that needs to change. Xplane needs a lot more than "more aircraft", if you ever want to grow the user base, thus providing the much needed editors, end users.

 

Glen

I'm also ok with your point of view.

If i manage to make everything i have in mind (there's a lot more than what i described), i think it may help the community to grow.

I think that if you tell a sim user something like "look at that xplane sim, you just have to download an app, and in a few clic you have some ultra realistic scenery for free, that automaticaly gets updated, no struggle to install files etc" well it should be a good point for the sim.

 

I'm REALLY proud to know that a LOT of osm data has been added by osm2xp users.

I spent hundreds of hours in various sims trying to enhance my local area, if back in the years something like osm was there , i would have spent nights on it

 

To get back on the initial goal of the topic, there are a lot of .shp files available, but as you said the'yre not perfect , and they are hard to find.

Once my repository project is done, i'll start digging the web for them, and will publish them on it.

Great Ben,

 

I've spent hours scouring the net looking for better data for my area, I can't find any that doesn't require a lot of editing to look right in Xplane. There are a few sources out there, but they all seem to "provide" the same data, the same source. I have no idea where that data is coming from. I've checked my Municipal, Provincial and Federal websites as well, there's nothing usable available.

 

If anyone in or around Ontario, Canada knows of a usable source, please let me / us know, although I think I already know the answer, :smile: but here's to hoping.

 

Glen

City of Ottawa has downloadable data for "Buildings - large" in different formats, including SHP. I checked out the KML version in Google Earth, looks like many or most of those are already in OSM, and *that* is still woefully inadequate.

 

I submitted a "Request Data" for a SHP file for every building footprint in the city--residential, commercial, industrial, and the reason why. I doubt they'll even respond to such an outrageous request, but a 1% chance is better than the 0% by not asking.

I think simheaven.de has a lot of osm autogen scenery for X-Plane and it is updated quite frequently. Might want to check it out. They offer entire continents. Not sure if this is what you guys are after.

I think simheaven.de has a lot of osm autogen scenery for X-Plane and it is updated quite frequently. Might want to check it out. They offer entire continents. Not sure if this is what you guys are after.

 

We've been there, done that.

 

Osm data is still far too incomplete to satisfy all but a few select regions around the world. The concept is nice, it's implementation in the Xplane world at this point is nothing but a dream for most. It will take years of editing in OpenStreetMap to ever get it to a usable level for Xplane. When there's data available it can look nice. Who has hundreds, if not thousands of hours to edit / add data to OSM, just to fill a retail flight simulator with nice "accurate" scenery, not me, not anymore. Have at it though, it will be like an unpaid second full time job, good luck. Please do Canada first.

 

Most of us are still waiting for that "miracle" 3rd party to come along and bless us with "new world wide" scenery / autogen for Xplane, hopefully some day.

 

Glen