I mean what really MAKES a flight simulator? I fear that the answer has sadly become a numbers game (no pun intended): Hyper accurate aircraft that "fly by the numbers", "frame rate numbers", "add-on product price numbers", "driver version numbers", "processor numbers", ad nauseum.Today, I took a flight in the A320PIC from KDEN to KLGA with USA Roads, FSGenesis Landclass and Activesky and with all that purring away I had, as alcoholics say, a momenent of clarity.There in front of me where whispy clouds, cities drifting quietly below, an entire airplane to wander through and the sounds of an airliner enveloping my senses.As night fell and the cities, neighborhoods, farms and streets seven miles below lit up I found myself wondering if any "sim-people" were looking up in the night sky as my airbus slid quietly in the cold night air. And there it was! All of a sudden, the fabled suspension of disbelief! The zen-like state when all is well, numbers don't matter, and the enjoyment of an entire simulated WORLD is sprawled out before me and I am, for lack of a better word, content!If I took off my rose colored glasses for an instant I would realize that the A320 PIC is missing a few functions and isn't perfect. The terrain mesh probaby isn't totally accurate, towns and cities down below are probably missing landmarks, airports may have errors, frame rates could be higher, airplane is off the numbers a bit, et al. BUT, put the rose colored glasses back on again, and I can practically smell the stale coffee spilled in the carpet on the flight deck and 118 people are sitting behind me as we make our way across the country!So, I was wondering, does anyone actually ENJOY simmin' anymore? Does anyone still appreciate MSFS for its immense beauty? What makes a sim for YOU and have you found it in MSFS? Or has the beauty been lost in the numbers game that has become an all to familiar obsession for most of us?Sorry for the short rant, just daydreaming I guess.Thanks,Mike T.

Lately, I've just been flying. My old machine doesn't have the horses to run FS9 with all the high-end add-ons, and I'm not sure I want to spend the time to port all my scenery and AI over, anyway. Instead, I've stopped the frantic races of upgrades and downloads. I've stuck with FS2002. I've been cruising around, picking whatever aircraft seemed suitable for the range and terrain. I'm hopping from airport to airport, checking out the sceneries that I'd installed or created over the last couple of years. I'd forgotten a lot of them, so it was like flying into a new place, one which I didn't even have to take the trouble to install. Two years of adding AI aircraft and flight plans have given me an entire world of region-appropriate aircraft.So, now it's time to just enjoy it. Each evening, I start wherever I landed the night before. I select a destination and a plane, file a flight plan and take off. I've flown GA props, corporate jets, an old DC3 and a Grumman Goose. For a change, a 747 cargo flight was an easy couple of hours without any white knuckles. Tonight I left Anchorage in a floatplane, crossing the path up to Red Shirt Lake where I took that first FS2002 flight the night I plugged this old machine in.

2 great letters. the range of colours that fill the screen when you fly about at dawn or dusk can be ezztrordinery as our clarified alcoholic would find. the range of addons show that its a constantly expanding world which each new version of the sim will bring slightly closer to realness- better ground texturing and more realistic towns and villages over which to fly as well as ever more sophisticated flight systems and realism of the aircraft.the great thing is that even with all the technical wizardry to enable you to autoland at jfk that same "engine" lets you take the jenny out in a gale trying to get the mail through.as all of us realise i'm sure that this sim will do virtually:-doh all we want of it. it is just brilliant.

I'm pretty happy with FS2004. I don't have a high-end machine, nor do I have the best video card and the best sound card, so I can't max everything out, but just being in the "air" flying my cargo to its destination gives me a feeling of satisfaction.Someday I'll get a new video card and a new sound card (or even a new computer), but I think I'll wiat until FS2006 or whatever. For now, I'm satisified.

Do people still fly just for the joy of it? You bet we do! (just look at my last video). I had that moment of "suspension" a few evenings ago after just installing the the patch, Fly San Francisco, MegaScenery and watching it on a new 21" monitor.It was at dusk over the Bay area at about 5,500 feet looking down I swear I could see the city lights twinkling below me in the crisp fall air. Maybe it was really shimmer caused by my vid card but at that brief moment I WAS flying. But to be fair, other simmers do reach their Zen by tracking the numbers, over-clocking, most realistic panel, flying by the numbers, etc., etc. That's what makes this hobby so diverse and satisfying.

What a great thread.Its easy to get wrapped up in the continuous quest for performance / accuracy / detail (whatever floats ya boat) and forget the reason behind all our tweaking.Every so often it all comes together - in a nice aircraft, approaching a nice airport, convincing weather, smooth frame rates and that aiming point on the runway becomes 'as real as it gets'! I picked up my first sim experience on FS2 on the C64 and I still can`t put it down!!Happing simming one and allRottenlungs.

Yeah! What a good thread to read before going to bed. I've been hooked since 1980 or so, but it was last August, the night before my daughter was born, that I was flying A320PIC with active camera, and had the same moment of clarity. A total suspension of disbelief. Looking outside at 30,000 feet at night, I went back and "sat" in a passenger seat. The air was crisp, and the sky dark, and the lights far below looked so real. I felt like a moment I was really there, just without the snoring of the worn-out, disheveled businessman sitting across the aisle.On the other hand, I hand flew a zero vis. ILS approach in strong winds tonight, and it wasn't so relaxing. There is absolutely no software like a civilian flight sim when it comes to "adjustable difficulty levels". No wonder people love them, it's like a "roll your own" game.

You've summed up this obsession of ours very nicely Mike. Every so often I try to rationalize why I find my flight simulator to be so addictive and its because of those moments you describe when I feel as if I'm really aloft, watching the landscape roll past below me.My system is certainly low end by FS9 standards. I just pretend that I blink a lot :-)RegardsBlairCYOW

I would have to say since the 9.1 update, I have enjoyed flying more and tweaking less. This thread is healthy to all simmers, cuz it shows there is more than just tweaking to FS9. My comp has enabled me to break the bonds of Earth and enjoy the sky for 54.99. I can't ask for anymore.Tony

So, I was wondering, does anyone actually ENJOY simmin' anymore? Absolutely. Thats why I pretty much quit making scenery, etc...Finally, the built in scenery was good nuff for my needs...As it is, I hardly have time to explore what all is there. Big change from the days when Chicago, New York, SF, ?? was about all you had to choose from. I remember in fs4, if you flew over Houston, there was NOTHING there, but green. Not even a runway. :( Not that problem any more. I still make a few panels from time to time, but mostly for my own use. I now spend much more time actually flying the thing overall, than I did say 5 years ago, when I spent equal as much time messing with making software. Since about fs2000, I use very little add on scenery. My usual pattern is to get set up with a few of my pet aircraft, and I concentrate on fine tweaking just those few aircraft to as real as possible. Lately, I fly mostly the lear31a and the 737-300 for jets. I prefer the mooney for a single prop as it's faster than a scalded house cat for a single prop, and it can go high..I use my own panel for it...I do fly the other planes from time to time, but I spend 75% of my time flying the lear 31a. I also use my own homemade panel for it, that is made from actual photo's of a real 31a. And even it, I'd like to upgrade to a "super version"..:/ I'm gonna try to con the pilot of the 31a into making me some super ultra detailed pix of the cabin and panel...He has a good camera... The ones I have now are pretty good, but it could be even better. For me and my present mediocre system, fs2004 is flying better than any previous sim when you consider the sharp increase in scenery quality.I run all scenery settings maxed out except for cloud density and AI...So I ain't really complaining. If I have any gripe, it's that the trend seems to be to fancy up the scenery and blinky things, but to me, the actual progress of the sim itself, has kinda stalled. IE: the fisher price autopilots in the boeings are a joke, and need to go...Heck, Eric Earnst made a decent 3rd party version 4 years ago. Why can't MS?? I know it can be done. I'm afraid the reasoning may be that the random everyday game player couldn't handle it...Myself.. To heck with the rookies...I want realism...:) Let them fly cessnas if they can't handle it.. MK

You know what,I recently fired up FS II on the C64 emulator (VICE, a great free emulator). After the 2.40 minute loading time screen the panel showed up and there I was, sitting on Meigs. The throttles are controlled with the ' en the ; key. They numpad emulates the joystick. I took off and head for o'Hare and I landed! Framerates were about 2 frames/second and the scenery is just lines, but you know what, I enjoyed it!!:D I would advice everybody to try it, it's called Marty's Reality Check Therapy and it's free! If you think those simulators where simple, you've got it wrong. The Meigs - o'Hare flight is insanely difficult at 2 frames/second! VICE can be downloaded for free and most abandonware sites carry FS2 images. (60 kb, aircraft, scenery and simulator included!)Happy flying!:-hah

Hi Mike, I don't just enjoy it ...I absolutely love it! :9 I have spent a lot of time honing my paint and gauge design skillz mainly to get a photoreal pilots point of view. I fly every day ..if I did not fly I would not paint or design at all. FS9 rocks (w/o the patch! :-lol) regardsEdhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/94266.jpg

For me, it is two things:One is the variety of aircraft and learning about each of them and their systems.Two is trying to create the most immersive enviorment possible by tweaking, adding on scenery, taffic etc...The flying is the product of those two things coming together as a grand symphony being performed. Just as musicians spend a lot of time practicing and preparing before they perform, I may not spend as much time flying as as I do doing other two things, but when I do, it is a magnificent experience.

Hi Mike T.,I enjoy both the scenery and the aircraft flying experience.However, more and more, I'm moving towards demanding more realistic FLIGHT DYNAMICS and learning the procedural details of flying an aircraft. I just purchased the READY FOR PUSHBACK 747-200 and I'm in the process of reading the manuals. Since I work week-ends and Mondays, I won't fly until at the earliest Tuesday or Monday night (maybe...if I can start the engines and all other systems). I love the RFP immensely already! However, I have been wondering how much FS2004 can do compared to, say X-PLANE (which I haven't used yet but will soon download in demo version). The flight dynamics - how real the plane feels and how well it responds to your movements of pedals and flight yoke - is the single most important reason of a flight simulator as far as I'm concerned. But, don't get me wrong, I love the scenery and have recently posted screen shots of the latest amazing freeware airport at San Juan Puerto Rico by John Young at the screenshots forum, so take a look.My last flight took about 3 hours even though it was approximately a 1.5 hour flight because I spent half of it getting screen shots from various angles and lighting situations...A "FLIGHT SIMULATOR" is just that, as the name implies - first and foremost a SIMULATOR...then secondly a beautiful scenery experience. I even look-up the countries and the airport names (named after people) in my MS Encarta 2003 to see how the names originated (e.g. San Juan, LUIS MUNOZ MARIN airport or Jakarta's SOEKARNA-HATTA freeware, Havanna's LUIS MARTI or countless many others are all named after famous politicians or artists). FS2004 has enriched my life in ways I never imagined and I love every minute of it! (as long as my approach and landing are "perfect" and I'm happy with them, of course! John:-roller

I enjoy the experience. The problem is that sometimes I get so caught up looking at everyone else's posts and screenshots on this site that I run out of time to do some flying myself.Time to get back into it.