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JonFly

KSLC to KLAS - Following GRNPA1 issue

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Hi fellow flight simmers. I am new to the forum and new to flying 737s accurately.   I have been flying KSLC to KLAS using the STAR arrival of GRNAPA1.   Everything is fine as we cross FRAWG near the end of the pattern.  According to the GRNPA1 chart you should continue onto TRROP and LEMNZ. If I follow the route to those points and then try to continue onto HAWKO and then CONDY, I never line up for ILS 25R.  Maybe my altitude is off or maybe these last two points are for smaller aircraft.  If I alter the plan and from FRAWG to not go to TRROP and LEMNZ and go direct toANy fee HAWKO and then CONDY, all is well.

 

Arrival chart here

 

http://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1306/pdf/00662GRNPA.PDF

 

KLAS ILS chart

 

http://download.aopa.org/ustprocs/current/SW-4/las_ils_or_loc_rwy_25r.pdf

 

 

Any feedback for this newbie?

 

Thanks

Jon Utley

KSLCMAN

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GRNPA One does not lead you to the runway. When landing Rwy 25R ATC would likely vector you somewhere at or just past FRAWG but could start moving you after DUBLIX if traffic was heavy. (Note that you are required to cross FRAWG at 8000 ft and 210 knots IAS, prior to that you must cross DUBLIX at 9000 ft, cross the previous waypoint GRNPA at 11000 ft and prior to that cross LUXOR at 12000 ft and 250 knots IAS).

 

GRNPA One serves all the runways, so if you are landing to the east you would expect to continue from FRAWG to TROOP to LEMNZ, maintain that heading until ATC turns you to the approach to Rwy 07L/R.

 

Note that the STAR requires that ATC radar be working and that you should expect vectors to the final approach. You can descend via the STAR (generally ATC will confirm you are cleared to descend via the published profile but can provide you with specific altitude and speed restrictions at their option). ATC can move you at any point but generally you would follow the logical progression and be turned at a point where you would be able to move to final at an appropriate point. Consider what might happen if you were landing Rwy 01R. You might get routed north of the KLAS to the west, turn south then turn to the northeast to intercept the localizer but you probably would fly southwest from DUBLX across Lake Mead and hold that heading until well south of KHND then be turned north-northwest to intercept the loacalizer for 01R.

 

You might find a bit of information of use here -

 

http://www.ifrjethops.com/ifr-flight-planning

 

http://www.ifrjethops.com/air-traffic-control-basics

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I flew KSLC to KLAS on VATSIM - unfortunately ATC went offline just as I arrived at LUXOR but he did take a minute to give me approximate vectors to 25R (actually fortunate that he went offline because winds were 183 at 15 knots and would have landed 19L instead).  A bit of fun flying the crosswind approach and landing, though.
 
See the attached file - That is what the track looked like.  The dotted white line is the actual vectored approach to 25R (bit of an overshoot on intercepting the localizer - I hand-flew this but my guess is that an autopilot would have done the same (intercepted at ~ 16 DME at ~ 180 knots IAS).  The red line is the (full) GRNPA1 approach.  The turn at DUBLX was to 180 degrees.  The LA center ATC said that this turn would be made somewhere between GRNPA1 and DUBLX but I elected to make the turn at DUBLX - probably the minimum distance to intercept the localizer.  The principle is the same, turn to 180 degrees, fly south a bit, then turned to 225 deg to intercept the localizer.

 

 

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TXHills, Dan

Thank you so much for such an informative response. It was exactly what I was looking for, you are an asset to this community. What you stated made perfect sense. I can now fly a more realistic path thanks to your input. Wow. 

 

Grateful

Jon

kslcman

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Anytime we use 25R in the real world on this arrival you always get a vector before FRAWG to eventually intercept the ILS. Many times there will be traffic coming in from the south so you will get a heading of anywhere from 160-180 for separation then eventually the heading of approx 220 to intercept. 

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