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Has anyone managed to get a file removed at FSPLANET?

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I have just been told that my Skyvan package has been uploaded to FSPlanet, not by me, and against the readme file, which states, the package is not to be uploaded to ANY site other than AVSIM.Has anyone managed to get one of their files removed from there?If so, how?CheersDan.

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How about getting ALL the developers together that've been robbed by this spanish thief, and procecute him in spain? It's time that this guy was stopped, he's a parasite for the whole community. They're starting to get wise with internet law in the European community at last, after years of ignoring the problem, and hoping it'd go away. The laws are being changed at a rapid rate, to try and stop this kind of thing. It should be possible to nail him somehow when we ALL get together. How about it guys?BestGrahame (EDHL)"Hasta la vista, ferdy!"

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That site is confusing, slow loading and garish. I found my aircraft there along with a repaint that I know was only uploaded to Flightsim. My aircraft was uploaded here at Avsim and to SOH. I didn

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I uploaded a file to avsim and it appeared on flightsim.com and fsplanet....so they are all the same. The fact is that all Fs sites hosting freeware are profiteering ...not just fsplanet. Should freeware authors decide who does and does not profit from their work?

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Man, I wish I was computer savvy enough to whack ferdy with something really nice, like a DOS attack :+ ,hehe.Couldn't happen to a nicer person,lolBestGrahame

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"I uploaded a file to avsim and it appeared on flightsim.com and fsplanet....so they are all the same. The fact is that all Fs sites hosting freeware are profiteering ...not just fsplanet"Hmmm....ok, flightsim.com will at least have the good nature to remove files if you ask them."Should freeware authors decide who does and does not profit from their work? "Of course they should, AVSIM DO NOT profit from any files uploaded to the library, they offer a TOTALLY FREE service, which is why I will only ever upload files to AVSIM.Dan.

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Three things:How can you imagine that we profit by providing over 400 megs of bandwidth a day for downloads?AVSIM does not poach files from other sites (as Ferdy does), though enthusiastic users might upload someone's file here.When asked, we'll remove a file immediately.There is a big difference.

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Dan,something I have not known before, but which was explained in a very interesting article in the austrian/german FS-magazine "flightxpress" is, that if something is declared as "freeware" anybody can do anything with such a programme, file, utility (software in general), no matter what the readme says. There is no possibility of a legal action against this."FREEware" does not mean FREE in the sense of "free of charge" but in the sense of, that there are no restrictions, what can be done with the softweare.(the recently to the AVSIM library uploaded 707 follows this principle).Even more interesting is that in most computer/software areas developers have nothing against it, that a third party charges money for a freeware product. These developers only wish this freeware to be distributed to as many users as possible, no matter how this is accomplished.Only in the FS community the term FREEware became common for free of charge, which is actually not correct.The articel in "flightxpress" provided some interesting internet links, which get into this matter more deeply. I will check the links at home tonight and post them.Ans this is not only valid for certain countries.To clarify, I do not state, that I personally think that this is fair or good.Wolfgang

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>Dan,>>something I have not known before, but which was explained in>a very interesting article in the austrian/german FS-magazine>"flightxpress" is, that if something is declared as "freeware">anybody can do anything with such a programme, file, utility>software in general, no matter what the readme says. There>is no possibility of a legal action against this.>"FREEware" does not mean FREE in the sense of "free of charge">but in the sense of, that there are no restrictions, what>can be done with the softweare.>the recently to the AVSIM library uploaded 707 follows this>principle.>>Even more interesting is that in most computer/software areas>developers have nothing against it, that a third party charges>money for a freeware product. These developers only wish this>freeware to be distributed to as many users as possible, no>matter how this is accomplished.>>Only in the FS community the term FREEware became common for>free of charge, which is actually not correct.>>The articel in "flightxpress" provided some interesting>internet links, which get into this matter more deeply. I will>check the links at home tonight and post them.>>Ans this is not only valid for certain countries.>>To clarify, I do not state, that I personally think that>this is fair or good.>>WolfgangIn addition to the above, according to this flightxpress-article, freeware can not only be distributed without limit, it can even be modified.Wolfgang

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Wolfgang this is how I understand "freeware" too - hence my question.Tom:>How can you imagine that we profit by providing over 400 megs of >bandwidth a day for downloads?The file library adds value to avsim which in turn allows success in revenue generating efforts...So indirectly AVSIM as a third party are generating revenue on the back of freeware, regardless of whether avsim turns a profit........>There is a big differenceThe difference is not that big imho, only that fsplanet do not play by your rules in extending common courtesy to freeware authors regarding (questionable)rights of distribution. I do not use fsplanet, I should add, but I don't see them as evil either.

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So basically what you are saying is that as soon as someone releases something for free, it is no longer there property, and they have no control over what happens to it?.Quite frankly, that sucks.Now, what if I were to charge 1p for the archive, I suppose then it would be classed as payware and then I would retain all control of said file?Dan.

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First, everyone, do some reading:http://isp.webopedia.com/TERM/F/freeware.htmlhttp://dict.die.net/freeware/http://www.free-definition.com/Freeware.htmlOne of the most important lines in the last document:"Freeware is usually copyrighted and its license may restrict certain activities."The last site (Wikipedia) is probably the best definition I have seen. It is simple; unless the author of a file SPECIFICALLY STATES that his file/creation is free of distribution restrictions, restrictions on modification, etc. etc., then the restrictions that ARE INCLUDED must be adhered to.

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Hi Mark,I have asked, first e-mail addresses to ferdy, got bounced back, no such e-mail address, have yet to hear from staff e-mailDan.

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"The file library adds value to avsim which in turn allows success in revenue generating efforts...So indirectly AVSIM as a third party are generating revenue on the back of freeware, regardless of whether avsim turns a profit........"Phrases like "AVSIM as a third party are generating revenue on the back of freeware..." are misleading at best and prejorative at worst. Yes, we do generate revenue. But, unlike Ferday, Flightsim.com and others, we put ALL of the revenue back into purchasing bandwidth and hardware SO THAT we can continue to provide a hosting service for 10's of thousand of files that the authors might otherwise have to pay bandwidth costs to distribute. I can't tell you how many of those authors started out wanting to distribute their files on their own sites, and found the cost to do so not only prohibitive, but would have forced them to do other than "freeware" to support their site. So, "on the back of freeware" to me is an insulting statement. "The difference is not that big imho, only that fsplanet do not play by your rules in extending common courtesy to freeware authors regarding (questionable)rights of distribution. I do not use fsplanet, I should add, but I don't see them as evil either."There is a big difference. Ferdy generates additional PERSONAL income from his site and he does so by ripping off files from other systems AGAINST the specific wishes of their authors. When asked to remove files, he more often than not ignores the author.I don't understand why people in this community are not outraged by this behavior. Ripping off freeware and treating authors with contempt is a no win proposition. How many contributors to this hobby do think have quit contributing because of sites like FSPlanet? More than a couple I suspect.And no, this is not a competitive thing between AVSIM and FSPlanet. FSPlanet is no competition to AVSIM, period. See the following to prove my case:http://www.avsim.com/pages/rank.htmlThis is about guys like Ferdy being a threat to our hobby and truly leaching off the good works of others, in total disregard of those contributor's wishes.

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"I don't understand why people in this community are not outraged by this behavior."Tom, I am, this is why I asked the question.I have asked FSplanet to remove the files, I did put specific instructions in the readme file stating the I DO NOT wish the file to be uploaded anywhere else.But what can I do about it?Dan.

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Tom,thanks for the link re: Freeware licence- answers my original question. I didn't mean to sound insulting or belittling but appreciate how it may have come across. I would say the lack of credit to freeware authors causes many to not bother rather than sites like fsplanet. My download clocked many thousands and all I received was emails from people asking for product support - not one word of thanks.

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Here's an idea that might help, either in stopping the practice, or making a class-action or even individual lawsuit more viable:1. In case European courts rely on the definition of "freeware" mentioned above, publish your add-ons with no use of the term "freeware."2. Always include a copyright notice that asserts the author's ownership of the copyright in any jurisdiction that recognizes copyright.3. (Here's the new part) Stipulate in the copyright notice that the price for a legal license to use the software is US$100 or so, and anyone who wishes to purchase a license should email the author for payment instructions. Stipulate, too, that because of the value the author has received from AVSIM in providing a resource for enjoyment of the hobby, and for technical aid and encouragement in developing the add-on (almost nobody creates these things without having learned something here), the author has in return granted a free license to any user who downloads the software from the AVSIM site.In no. 3, the reference to the copyright holder having received value from AVSIM is important. And of course, you may substitute or add any other site you wish to those whose users are granted a free license.This way, you accomplish two things: First, you establish a value for the software that can be used to calculate damages in a lawsuit. It's harder to quantify the damage done by the copyright infringement if the software is "free." Second, even if a rogue web site manager is not deterred, most individual downloaders will be concerned about their personal liability in downloading the software, and so interest in downloading from the rogue site will be diminished.I know a little about intellectual property law, but not so much that the above might not have some problems I haven't considered. Also AVSIM might need to provide a way to show proof that a file was downloaded from their servers, which might be too much hassle, and there might even be other reasons AVSIM would be wary of hosting packages with such an approach. I don't mean to speak for them or for add-on authors. I'm merely offering a possibility in case the parties involved might like to kick it around and see if it offers a solution.

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Great suggestion.As for "I know a little about intellectual property law, but not so much that the above might not have some problems I haven't considered. Also AVSIM might need to provide a way to show proof that a file was downloaded from their servers, which might be too much hassle, and there might even be other reasons AVSIM would be wary of hosting packages with such an approach. I don't mean to speak for them or for add-on authors. I'm merely offering a possibility in case the parties involved might like to kick it around and see if it offers a solution."AVSIM does include a zip wrapper notification on all files downloaded from AVSIM. This is an automatic process when the file is scanned and then placed in our library. It shows up as "avsim.diz" in the file when you unzip it.

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Prehaps someone could come up with a standard readme template that icludes the suggestion?.Or could it be put in automatically r.e. the "diz" file?Dan.

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Dan, here a draft that should NOT be included in the README file, but in a separate file "LICENSE TO USE":------COPYRIGHT NOTICECopyright Date: (insert date of publication)Copyright Holder: (insert name of individual or team)In accordance with International Copyright Law, this program and all of its contents remain the property of the Copyright Holder stipulated above. The following actions are strictly forbidden without specific written permission from the Copyright Holder to do so:1.) Resale in any form2.) Compilation in any media3.) Alteration, modification, or removal of any content included in this program4.) Distribution via any medium, website, library, magazine or forum5.) Decompilation or reverse engineering of this program or any of its contentsLICENSE TO USEYou are hereby granted a license to use this program for your personal, non-commercial, use. Violation of any of the Copyright terms above or License to Use automatically removes your license to use this product, and must be removed from your hard drive or other storage media.FEEThis program is NOT freeware or free software. Its retail value is $100.00 US Dollars payable to the Copyright Holder above. If you have obtained this program from some other source than those listed in the WAIVER OF FEE section below, please contact the Copyright Holder at (insert email address) for payment arrangements.WAIVER OF FEEThe above fee is waived ONLY if you obtain this program from the following:AVSIM Online(insert other websites you will allow to distribute your program)These sources of this program have been granted a mass distribution license by the Copyright Holder. If you have obtained this program from any other source than those listed above, that site or source has violated the rights of the Copyright Holder. That source and you are required to pay the LICENSE FEE stated above. Sources not listed above are required to pay the license fee for all copies of this program distributed through their system, media or compilation service.------

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I have found my swiss repaints of the Eaglesoft Citation II, the Aeroworx B200 on a swiss site. I only uploaded them to the AVSIM site. I am very proud of the work that I have done on these repaints, and am willing to share them with all in the FS community. While I am a great supporter of AVSIM, I am not going to complain if I find my freeware somewhere else. When it is free for the FS community to use as they wish, then there is no reason for me to be upset that someone found them to be so good they wanted the files for their site. The more people that can use my contribution to the FS community, the better. I find it a compliment that someone thinks my work is that good, and wants to post it on their site.:DGranted, if I had copyrights and my repaints cost money, then of course I would be ticked off about stealing of these files. But how can you steal something if it is free?:DI respect the rights of people to have their free files used as they have been intended. If your readme file says that this freeware is to remain at AVSIM, then your wishes should be respected.:D

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Again, I'm not a real lawyer (and I don't even play one on TV!), but it seems to me you'd want to make the license specifically contingent on payment of the fee or obtaining the software from a site in the free distribution list.Also, I think it's important to specify in the fee waiver section that the fee waiver is granted to the distributing site(s) specifically in return for value received by the copyright holder from the site(s). Otherwise, it seems to me that it would be too close to charging different prices to different customers based solely on who the customer is, in which case I'd worry about antitrust issues being a problem.I've seen the avsim.diz files and didn't know what that was, but you're right that the presence of that file should suffice. But if the software is downloaded by the rogue site from AVSIM and offered on the rogue site with the avsim.diz file included, it could make it hard to press the point against the individuals who download from the rogue site. In such a case, though, AVSIM would be in a position to challenge the illegal copying of the avsim.diz file, which is a much different matter than individual developers trying to pursue someone. And a concrete value will still have been established, putting a real sting into the risk the rogue site operator takes.

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>Of course they should, AVSIM DO NOT profit from any files>uploaded to the library, they offer a TOTALLY FREE service,>which is why I will only ever upload files to AVSIM.>>Dan.>I am sure that AVSIM may not profit from the freeware uploads, but they do profit from the ad space they sell. If it were not for all the freeware uploads and all the other services AVSIM has to offer, then there would be no one willing to purchase ad space. AVSIM like all the other FS sites is a business making money off the freeware downloads and other services through the sale of the ad space. I don't blame AVSIM or anyone else for trying to make a profit. It takes money to run a website, and if you don't have revenue coming in you don't have freeware downloads. I am glad I could support this site with my freeware repaints. :DYellow5

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Let's not confuse "profit" with "revenue". Profit implies that I and the staff of AVSIM somehow personally gain from the revenue that we do bring in. That is NOT the case. We pour ALL OF OUR REVENUE back into providing huge amounts of bandwidth and hardware to keep all this going so that users can have a large library and web site available to them for FREE. One more time: there is NO PROFIT in this for AVSIM or any of its members (and never has been). Period.

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