4670k overclock issues

[JimmiG 244]

It's a fact that *most* retail Haswell CPUs overclock to 4.2 - 4.4 GHz at 1.2 - 1.3V. Some have pushed theirs to 4.6+ GHz but it's actually very rare and very hard to achieve with reasonable temps in proper stress tests such as the Aida64 FPU-test or AVX-enabled Linpack.

 

With FSX and clock speeds, of course, more is always better. However, even 4.7 GHz is just a 9.3% difference over 4.3 GHz. Suppose you get 25 FPS now, an overclock to 4.7 would give you just over 27 FPS. It would be hard to even notice the difference. It won't magically allow you to crank everything up to the max.

 

In your case, better cooling or even a de-lid would probably not do much since the voltage is your problem. My 4770K needs 1.218V for 4.3 GHz, but temps are already pretty high in the Aida64 FPU test. So I can't really use 1.3V to see where the limit is. I'm running a full-tower case and the Phanteks PH-TC14PE (roughly equivalent to the Noctua).

 

Thinking about de-lidding. IMO,with Haswell it's pointless to spend hundreds of dollars in cooling. It actually doesn't put out a lot of heat. The problem is just that what it puts out gets trapped under the IHS because of poor design. A delid+$50 air cooler will yield better temps than a non-delid CPU with high-end, expensive and risky water-cooling. It would just be circulating cold water around, while the CPU itself is boiling under that heat spreader and cheap thermal paste.

[martin-w 3,278]

In your case, better cooling or even a de-lid would probably not do much since the voltage is your problem.

 

 

Not necssarily.

 

The hotter a CPU is, the more voltage is required. It "may" well be that after de-lidding, and thus lower temp under load, that less voltage is required to achieve the same clock speed.

 

Thinking about de-lidding. IMO,with Haswell it's pointless to spend hundreds of dollars in cooling. It actually doesn't put out a lot of heat. The problem is just that what it puts out gets trapped under the IHS because of poor design. A delid+$50 air cooler will yield better temps than a non-delid CPU with high-end, expensive and risky water-cooling. It would just be circulating cold water around, while the CPU itself is boiling under that heat spreader and cheap thermal paste.

 

 

Very true.

 

With Ivy Bridge and Haswell, many have spent big bucks on full blown water cooling loops, only to find exactly what you describe. Namely the TIM under the IHS still acting more like an insulator than conductor at higher voltage. And thus negating the benefits of the extreme water cooling solution.

 

the Phanteks PH-TC14PE (roughly equivalent to the Noctua).

 

 

Well no, the Phanteks PH-TC14PE is hotter than the old H100.

 

The D14 is cooler and quieter than the H100, the H100i and equivalent in terms of cooling/noise to the H110.

 

The D14 is actually quite a way ahead.

[Falconfly 62]

What all have you tried adjusting? Anything other than Vcore?

 

Plenty of people, myself included, have found we need to adjust other voltages to get Haswell stable. I ended up adjusting Vcore, VRIN, CPU Input Voltage, system agent voltage, and a couple other things to get stable at 4.5 (Though currently at 4.4 for slightly lower voltage/temps until I decide to get better cooling and possibly delid).

 

 

Give this a read if you haven't already. It's for Gigabyte boards, and some of the terms are different, but it was a great help for me in getting things stable. http://www.overclock.net/t/1401976/the-gigabyte-z87-haswell-overclocking-oc-guide/0_50

 

Hey.

 

I did read the guide and currently at 4.4 ghz @ 1.415 vcore.I know that ridiculously high.But it seems to work for fsx.I would downlcock the voltage to 1.3 for 4.3 ghz 

Google for "Word Not Allowed's Flight Simulation World", you will find best balanced fsx settings for your system.

About your overclock, you said that you need a "crazy high" voltage for 4.5GHz, what vcore you actually need for 4.5?   

For 4.3 i need 1.3 vcore. So for 4.5 probably a lot more !

Not necssarily.

 

The hotter a CPU is, the more voltage is required. It "may" well be that after de-lidding, and thus lower temp under load, that less voltage is required to achieve the same clock speed.

 

 

Very true.

 

With Ivy Bridge and Haswell, many have spent big bucks on full blown water cooling loops, only to find exactly what you describe. Namely the TIM under the IHS still acting more like an insulator than conductor at higher voltage. And thus negating the benefits of the extreme water cooling solution.

 

 

Well no, the Phanteks PH-TC14PE is hotter than the old H100.

 

The D14 is cooler and quieter than the H100, the H100i and equivalent in terms of cooling/noise to the H110.

 

The D14 is actually quite a way ahead.

Should i consider the nhd14 over my h100 ?? Or even should i consider the swiftech h320 ?

Not happy with your overclock? The watercooling industry has been around a long time. They understand what you are trying to do.

Memory:@ 1.65V

2800MHz cas11

2666MHz cas10

2400MHz cas9

2133MHz cas8

 

HLJAMES

By any chance would you know any budget rams for hasewell ?

[Noel 4,572]

What we're experiencing here is a real plateau in what we can expect hardware development can do for applications like FSX that are largely single-core performance dependent and can't take advantage of where modern hardware has evolved.  When you think about what each big iteration of processors the amount of performance boost for each new tic or tock from Intel in terms of single-core performance has been quite marginal.  Add to this what Intel did w/ abandoning using better TIM in their line of desktop processors and the reality is that by the time you get to, for example SB or IB and now H, upgrading every few years or so to the next tic or tock just isn't going to translate to very meaningful performance improvement.  Dialing a slider or two back a notch will get you the same result as coughing up $$ for a new processor, main board, gpu & memory.  As I understand it from posts here developing a new simulator engine designed to be maximally multithreaded would be a daunting task because of how a simulator engine works.   That LM is now involved plus the infrastructure already in existence in terms of 3rd party content developers & online vendors we're going to go there for sure.   With P3D deploying their 64-bit developer kit I think  there is reason to feel very good about the future of our fun hobby ;o:

Hey.

 

I did read the guide and currently at 4.4 ghz @ 1.415 vcore.I know that ridiculously high.But it seems to work for fsx.I would downlcock the voltage to 1.3 for 4.3 ghz 

For 4.3 i need 1.3 vcore. So for 4.5 probably a lot more !

Should i consider the nhd14 over my h100 ?? Or even should i consider the swiftech h320 ?

By any chance would you know any budget rams for hasewell ?

 

If your case is big enough to accommodate the D14 might as well go there over water since noise and cooling are on a par w/ the H100 plus bonus:  no possibility of a water leak w/ the D14.  This was my approach having listening to what Martin has said on this topic, and I can attest it's working fabulously on the notoriously heat-producing 6-core SB-E processor in my new build.  Fortunately these CPUs sport the superior fluxless solder.   I'm seeing high 50's at 4.4Ghz in the way of temps in FSX when room temp is in the low to mid 70's F.

[JimmiG 244]

Well no, the Phanteks PH-TC14PE is hotter than the old H100.

 

The D14 is cooler and quieter than the H100, the H100i and equivalent in terms of cooling/noise to the H110.

 

The D14 is actually quite a way ahead.

 

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phanteks_ph_tc14pe/4.htm

 

Overclocked @ full load, Phanteks: 60C, Noctua: 65C

 

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/59957-phanteks-ph-tc14pe-ph-tc12dx-coolers-review-6.html

 

Phanteks: 76C peak, Noctua: 77C Peak

 

They're very similar actually, both are "twin-tower" designs with two 140mm fans. In fact, both are built by the same manufacturer, a company called Kolink International Corporation.

[HLJames 2,568]

 

 

By any chance would you know any budget rams for hasewell ?

G.Skill Trident X 8GB F3-2666C10D-8GTXD

$179 newegg

 

HLJAMES

[E6BAV8R 88]

I guess I was lucky and got a good chip.  My 4670K is sitting at 4.4GHz @ 1.15V.  I'm using a 212+ EVO and temps are just perfectly fine.  Sounds like you just got a bad chip.  I've heard 4.2 - 4.3GHz on a Haswell is still considered "bad" for that particular chip.  Unfortunately there just isn't anything you can do about it.

 

Hey.

 

I did read the guide and currently at 4.4 ghz @ 1.415 vcore.I know that ridiculously high.But it seems to work for fsx.I would downlcock the voltage to 1.3 for 4.3 ghz 

For 4.3 i need 1.3 vcore. So for 4.5 probably a lot more !

Should i consider the nhd14 over my h100 ?? Or even should i consider the swiftech h320 ?

By any chance would you know any budget rams for hasewell ?

 

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133

[martin-w 3,278]

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phanteks_ph_tc14pe/4.htm

 

Overclocked @ full load, Phanteks: 60C, Noctua: 65C

 

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/59957-phanteks-ph-tc14pe-ph-tc12dx-coolers-review-6.html

 

Phanteks: 76C peak, Noctua: 77C Peak

 

They're very similar actually, both are "twin-tower" designs with two 140mm fans. In fact, both are built by the same manufacturer, a company called Kolink International Corporation.

 

 

Fair enough, I stand corrected. 

 

D-14 has a 120 fan plus a 140 by the way. Seems we can add the Phanteks to the list. D14, Silver Arrow, and the Phanteks.

[martin-w 3,278]

Should i consider the nhd14 over my h100 ?? Or even should i consider the swiftech h320 ?

 

 

That's not something we can decide for you. The D14 is a better cooler, and would provide you with lower CPU temp. That lower CPU temp would allow you to overclock a little more. Whether that minimal frequency increase is worth it to you is something for you to decide. As an initial choice, upon building a new system, my preference is to go for the best cooler around, it's logical in my view. But you shouldn't expect miracles as a result of swapping an H100 for a D14.

 

As Noel and others have pointed out, chasing the last few hundred megahertz is more about bragging rights than a significant frame rate benefit. And in your case, [and mine] you are limited by the TIM under the CPU IHS.

 

As for the Swiftech H320, it's a bit of an unknown quantity. I haven't been able to find any proper reviews of this cooler. I believe it's only just come to the market. On paper, it seems to be a promising prospect, but that's all we can say at present. In regard to the Swiftech H320, you would need a PC enclosure capable of housing a triple radiator, so I'm thinking probably a full tower enclosure.

 

You would also have to be comfortable with the possibility of leaks, they do happen for some, how frequent in terms of such a new product only time will tell.

[JimmiG 244]

 

I guess I was lucky and got a good chip.  My 4670K is sitting at 4.4GHz @ 1.15V.  I'm using a 212+ EVO and temps are just perfectly fine.  Sounds like you just got a bad chip.  I've heard 4.2 - 4.3GHz on a Haswell is still considered "bad" for that particular chip.  Unfortunately there just isn't anything you can do about it.

 

 

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133

 

 

Without a de-lid, the frequency you can achieve at ~1.2V will dictate your final overclock. Below 1.2V, most decent air coolers will handle the heat just fine. Clock frequency does not affect temperatures to nearly the same degree as VCore does.

 

Your chip is particularly good since it only requires 1.15V. 1.3V for 4.3 GHz is not unusually bad, but above average.

 

 

Fair enough, I stand corrected. 

 

D-14 has a 120 fan plus a 140 by the way. Seems we can add the Phanteks to the list. D14, Silver Arrow, and the Phanteks.

 

The Phanteks does not appear to be as common or well known, but that's the one they had in stock when I ordered the parts.

[Falconfly 62]

Without a de-lid, the frequency you can achieve at ~1.2V will dictate your final overclock. Below 1.2V, most decent air coolers will handle the heat just fine. Clock frequency does not affect temperatures to nearly the same degree as VCore does.

 

Your chip is particularly good since it only requires 1.15V. 1.3V for 4.3 GHz is not unusually bad, but above average.

 

 

 

 

The Phanteks does not appear to be as common or well known, but that's the one they had in stock when I ordered the parts.

Ok..now iam confused.Should i go in for the d14 ?

 

And should i push beyond 1.42 v for 4.5 ?

[martin-w 3,278]

Ok..now iam confused.Should i go in for the d14 ?

 

 

 

 

We can't tell you what you should and shouldn't do. It's your choice. All we can do is tell you how the cooler performs. Look at the links I posted previously. Look at cooler reviews.

 

I would eestimate the D14 to cool 6 degrees better than the H100 [estimate only, look at cooler reviews to determine for yourself more accurately]

 

You know your set-up, you know the frequencies you are achieving with a given voltage. How much heat does that generate? How much more do you think 6- degrees cooler would allow you to overclock? Is it worth it TO YOU, to spend the money on a new cooler for the extra overclock achieved?

 

Ivy Bridge and Haswell tend to hit a thermal brick wall, at which point temps shoot up like a rocket. Where is that point for your CPU, what is the voltage beyond which temps shoot up rapidly as a result of Inrtels crappy TIM under the IHS? At or beyond that voltage you would need to delid to see any more benefit from your cooling solution.

[Noel 4,572]

 

 

And should i push beyond 1.42 v for 4.5 ?

 

 

Goodness, you're still asking this question?

 

If you're willing to risk having to buy a replacement CPU ahead of schedule, to generate no discernible difference in real performance (not synthetic benchmarks please), by all means have at it.  The whole discussion here has become quite moot:  you have decent performance already by all practical measures.  Go back to your 4.3Ghz and dial a slider or two back a notch or two depending on where you are flying and in what.   Try the QW757 too--fun to fly and easier on frames than the NGX.   If you want liquid smooth anywhere in any scenery w/ sliders hard right fly the Super MD-80 Pro.   For smaller twin turboprops the RealAir Turbine Duke is easy to run and is fabulous.  Everybody here compromises something, and you must too.

[Falconfly 62]

Goodness, you're still asking this question?

 

If you're willing to risk having to buy a replacement CPU ahead of schedule, to generate no discernible difference in real performance (not synthetic benchmarks please), by all means have at it.  The whole discussion here has become quite moot:  you have decent performance already by all practical measures.  Go back to your 4.3Ghz and dial a slider or two back a notch or two depending on where you are flying and in what.   Try the QW757 too--fun to fly and easier on frames than the NGX.   If you want liquid smooth anywhere in any scenery w/ sliders hard right fly the Super MD-80 Pro.   For smaller twin turboprops the RealAir Turbine Duke is easy to run and is fabulous.  Everybody here compromises something, and you must too.

hey Noel,

 

Your right.A new cpu is the last thing that i would want.Nevertheless, ill settle for 4.3 @ 1.3..and push back the sliders.Also might look for the ram posted above and maybe a cooler...thanks mate

[ant_1984 20]

Ok..now iam confused.Should i go in for the d14 ?

 

And should i push beyond 1.42 v for 4.5 ?

 

Have you tried playing with other voltages?

 

CPU Input voltage and Uncore Voltage (sometimes called different things depending on motherboard) will also affect your stability. You may be able to get stable at a lower vcore (and thus lower temps) by playing around with these.