Go around, crabbing, crosswind landing, side slip techniques tutorial in video.

[rtodepart 761]

This in my book is something to stay away from .  however  till this day i had 2 blown tires the first one on a 727 and the second on a 752 because of weather conditions i had to land and a go around was not a option again because of the weather . I remember the second time after i was out the active the weather got even worse so i was glad i landed with all my souls on board and a blown tire ... 

[blakemoore24 9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la-hSjKP2TU

watch the turkish guy land in a crab...this is exactly why you don't do it. It's flat out dangerous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGxRCXMJyS0

watch this he puts it into perfect context.

 

Blake Moore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF0Su06eBLs

here's another video since someone said "FSX is different" I think they have since removed their post though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWg9mg3L-P0

you will see plenty that land here in a crab, and then skid all over the runway...One reason they train us not to, go to 9:20 and watch the ANA 763 that's landing, he executes the x-wind landing almost perfectly

 

Blake Moore

[blakemoore24 9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfIViAMhxEgv

Here is a video of crew training for the 757...listen closely to the standards captains instructions as they come down close

[serviceceiling 135]

No point in simming if your not going to practice proper procedures. Any real world pilots of the 777 or any other aircraft will tell you that it is bad airmanship to land in a crab. 

 

With all due respect, but YOU have no idea what you are talking about. A "crab" approach or landing is tought in ANY fligh school, regardless if it's a C172 or an A380 - they are ALL airplanes and the basics of flight apply to all of them.

[ruemenapp21 108]

With all due respect, but YOU have no idea what you are talking about. A "crab" approach or landing is tought in ANY fligh school, regardless if it's a C172 or a A380 - they are ALL airplanes and the basics of flight apply to all of them.

I'm not talking about the approach I'm talking about the gear meeting the ground here. I prefer to crab the approach then side-slip my self. 

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Oh the YouTube defense...

 

Yes, sir, I carried out the appropriate procedure in accordance with my viewing on YouTube.

-In contravention to the prescribed AFM?

Yes, sir.  I felt the essential hearsay evidence of someone's own technique, supposedly in line with whatever manual he or she read, exhibited on YouTube would be sufficient.

-As evidenced by the lack of three tires on the upwind side of the upwind bogey?

Yes, sir...

-Right.  We'll see you at headquarters next week.

 

As evidence, I provide my own failure:

Watch the video, and more than anything else: listen.  Just because I published this video online, you're going to tell me that despite the aircraft quite literally crying from what I did to it, that's correct because I'm a pilot, and it's online?

 

http://contour.com/videos/watch/okv-landing-2-30122012

[ruemenapp21 108]

Then I have some bad news for a few of my friends and the hundreds of 777's I've watched land at Heathrow over the years crabbed :-P

 

Someone from Emirates said he likes to gently feed it in a second or so before main gear touches down and have fully centred by the time the nose gear settles. Sometimes if its strong enough it's easier to get her down crabbed then swing centred before hand.

 

Two people from British Airways & Cathay say they land crabbed.

 

It's not a no no in the 777... Sure it's not one hundred percent healthy on the gear, but these guys I've asked that always land crabbed have NEVER damaged the tires and procedure is NOT ruled out by company. Even with a hard 30 knots from the right at Heathrow. Of course if this was the RW I'd follow the companies procedures - but it's not. FSX handles rudder movement rubbish in my opinion (probably because mine is on my stick itself)

 

Here's another perfect example for you: - as soon as main wheels touch, swing her centred. And again... - http://youtu.be/ZwLnd8bJruI - http://youtu.be/5OZCtGXKq9s - so a lot of 777 pilots must have awful airmanship...

 

Once again, as 777simmer said - both are accepted and valid. Going to go do a bunch of tests in the sim since this has been brought up so heavily.

One link failed..

The first ANA one you can see him start to decrab in the flare. That second video there isn't that much of a crosswind, he made a very nice landing. The El Al one landed in a crab and slide back to the right side of the centerline. It' better airmanship to decrab right before touchdown. 

 

 

Let's try this approach.

 

Why is it better to land in a crab? 

[coryb13 102]

Why is it better to land in a crab? 

 

Because if you kill the crab on landing, you can eat a gourmet meal instead of airport food  :lol:

[3-2-1-Now 126]

Why is it better to land in a crab?

 

Uhhhh.......

 

 

 

Why is it better to kick off drift?

 

* Much lower chance of blown tyres

* Better directional control of the aircraft at and immediately following touchdown

* Improved braking action due to reduced or eliminated wheel sliding reducing stopping distance

* Reduces lateral loads on the main landing gear

* Much reduced possibility of being blown off the side of the runway

 

The argument that landing crabbed is better because the brakes are more effective (whilst the aircraft is sliding all over the place) or gets the spoilers out sooner is disingenious.

 

Best regards,

Robin.

[777simmer 117]

FSX does not model the rudder correctly. At least it doesn't in my setup. FSX sees rudder input as a finite number. As a test, fly wings level in the 172 and hit full rudder. While doing that try keeping the wings level.

In real life you will at some point do a 360. Not so in FSX. The amount of input dictates the amount of drift. At a certain point your nose will stop moving in the direction of rudder input. So it is rather impossible to do a side slip to landing with any degree of consistency. The reaction is somewhat true to life, until you hit the point where FSX says your not yawing anymore. At that point you're flying out of trim, instead of truly side slipping. I fly the MD80 and I side slip as much as 10. You hold the rudder, then find the bank required to generate sufficient horizontal lift component to counteract the crosswind. You can't do that at 40 feet. You have to start at least at 300-400' to truly do a side slip landing. The 777 has huge engine under it's wing, and that is why in even moderate crosswinds the crabbed landing is more suitable.

 

Cheers,

Well, I tried level wings with full rudder input....you are right....FSX behavior is not correct and the aircraft will stop to yaw.

 

The best I could do so far with this behavior and a 40kt Xwind in the NGX was to start at about 10nm final with a crab. Then on short final (the last 3nm or so) I used the rudder to pretty much slowly bring the nose to parallel the centerline. The ailerons I used to keep the wings level.

Like you said, in real life you need to put one wing down into the wind to keep you from drifting. Not so in FSX it seems. It flew nicely along the extended centerline with wings level. Strange!

 

I will try some more but I think you are right.

Not very realistic.

 

On the other hand, if you are not a real pilot, you will not notice that it not totally correct and you can still fly with something that seems like a side slip and do a non crabbed touchdown!

[neas1982 42]

 

 

The argument that landing crabbed is better because the brakes are more effective (whilst the aircraft is sliding all over the place) or gets the spoilers out sooner is disingenious.

 

Best regards,

Robin.

 

I suppose the people at BOEING got it all wrong then ... damn

 

*roll*

[3-2-1-Now 126]

It's a matter of physics, not a matter of who is right or wrong.

 

The sliding tyres have less grip. Period. Less grip = longer stopping distance required.

 

Best regards,

Robin.

[neas1982 42]

If they would be sliding forward, but they are sliding sideways, which is easier on a wet or slippery runway, which is why it is boeing recommendation. I would kinda trust the judgement of the people who actually build the aircraft.

[Flamin_Squirrel 71]

* Much reduced possibility of being blown off the side of the runway

Not sure about that one. You have to remove the crab then either touch down quickly before you get blown off or, lower a wing into the wind to stop the drift and land on one side first. The ability to lower a wing in a heavy is limited though as engine clearance is limited.

[777simmer 117]

Have I mentioned that the 777 Autopilot de-crabs during Autoland in light crosswinds and partially de-crabs in moderate crosswinds!?

 

Like I said both is ok, but the AP would not de-crab if it would not have some benefit (pax comfort, less load on the gear, etc etc)