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Some Doubts on how it works

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Hi ! First of all i have to say that i have made almost 8 flights and most of them are flights around 5-6 hours. All is most clear but in any flight i fly there is always something different. Example i flew the tutorial from VRMM to OMDB and All was ok from take off to landing aside for the caution warning that didnt move away. Then i flew from OMDB to VTBS And the Reccomanded FL was 370 so i ddi set 370 same flight level suggested by PFPX. Then The Step Climb was set to RVSM and it suggested me to climb to FL 390 And soon after to FL 410. Well When I arrived on the S/C to FL410 i selected all but then the FMC indicated thei values Reccomended FL 390 MAX FL400 so i Kept on flying at FL390. How come the FMC suggested me to step Climb to FL 410 When the MAX was Lower?

 

In Another flight i was starting descending and the speed increased so i retarted the throttles and the speed decreased as normal. At this point i would like to ask what is the N1 percenteage in Idle? As i was not able to be under 22%.

 

Anyway when i was leveled to runway LOc intercepted and Glide intercepted the plane started to increase speed even if throttles were in idle. It increased speed to 170 knots the after a while i was able to bring it back to normal VREF. 

 

Again when landing i leave the AT on then do i have to retard the throttles to idle or it should be done alone? As i never notice that during flare the power decrease unless i move back to idle the throttles.

 

Thanks 

Alfredo Russo

I have the FMC tell me to do a step climb "NOW' when it was above my max altitude as stated by FMC! 

Jeff Blyth

In Another flight i was starting descending and the speed increased so i retarted the throttles and the speed decreased as normal. At this point i would like to ask what is the N1 percenteage in Idle? As i was not able to be under 22%

 

Thats what is called Flight Idle, its a higher Idle than the 22% you are used to seeing which is called ground idle.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway when i was leveled to runway LOc intercepted and Glide intercepted the plane started to increase speed even if throttles were in idle. It increased speed to 170 knots the after a while i was able to bring it back to normal VREF

 

 

The 777 is a very slippery plane, so you have to learn to manage its energy properly, if it starts to get away from you dont be shy to use the speedbrakes, i cant recall exactly but i think i remember seeing in the Flight Crew Training Manual that speedbrake can be used with the flaps extended, the speedbrakes are a part of the primary flight controls so use them. But not at the expense of virtual safety, you dont want to de-stabilize the aircraft on the approach, that could be virtually disastrous.

Bryan Richards

 

"People depend so much on automation that they forget how to get the automation to work." B.W.

  • Author

Ouh Yes ! I do use the speed brakes otherwise it doesnt slowdown  properly. I move the the thrttles in idle and use speed brake till reaching the commanded speed.

Alfredo Russo

I must clarify my previous comment on the speedbrakes, use of them with flaps greater than 5 should be avoided.

Bryan Richards

 

"People depend so much on automation that they forget how to get the automation to work." B.W.

In Another flight i was starting descending and the speed increased so i retarted the throttles and the speed decreased as normal. At this point i would like to ask what is the N1 percenteage in Idle? As i was not able to be under 22%.

Normal. Flight idle. It's usually around 23% give or take. Flight idle is higher due to various reasons including airspeed pushing the blades, and FADEC bumping up the speed for various reasons to do with the way the engines work. N1% is the speed the big fan is spinning. When you're doing 250 knots it's getting some speed from the turbine, and some from the air rushing past into the engine. FADEC bumps the minimum N1 up a touch because it's better for the engines.

 

 

Anyway when i was leveled to runway LOc intercepted and Glide intercepted the plane started to increase speed even if throttles were in idle. It increased speed to 170 knots the after a while i was able to bring it back to normal VREF. 

 

I usually drop gear down at glideslope intercept. I do this on the 737NGX also, for the same reason. It will start to speed up as it 'falls' (descends) with gravity. Just like going downhill in a go-cart, toboggan or Roller coaster, Aircraft also gain speed when going down hill. The fact that the hill is an invisible glideslope doesn't make it any less "down hill". You need to add drag. Landing gear and flaps is drag, and so is speedbrake. I like to manage it so I don't need speedbrake, just maintain flap 5 and 160 kts till intercept, then pop gear and flap 15 or 20 as you descend. Should keep the speed under control on a -750 to -800 ft/min descent rate typical of a 3° glideslope.

 

 

 

 

Then The Step Climb was set to RVSM and it suggested me to climb to FL 390 And soon after to FL 410. Well When I arrived on the S/C to FL410 i selected all but then the FMC indicated thei values Reccomended FL 390 MAX FL400 so i Kept on flying at FL390. How come the FMC suggested me to step Climb to FL 410 When the MAX was Lower?

 

Might be bug, I'v seen this too. You are probably right in not climbing above max, and holding off on the last step climb for a bit longer till max=FL410 or better..

 

 

Again when landing i leave the AT on then do i have to retard the throttles to idle or it should be done alone? As i never notice that during flare the power decrease unless i move back to idle the throttles.

If you have a hardware throttle lever, it should indeed be idle/as far back as you can get it before touchdown. Land At Vref, but starting the flare from Vref+5+wind additive. If you have auto landing, it should automatically pull the throttle back when it reaches Flare mode at around 20ft. If using the yoke/stick to land (no autopilot connected) then get that throttle back yourself.

qfafin.jpg
Trent Hopkinson, 2015 Crewmember of www.mangrove.com.au WorldFlight sim

          Youtube channel www.youtube.com/user/musicalaviator

  • Author

Clear Explanation! Thaks very much  ! But i was not clear speed didnt increase as the plane was descending that was pretty normal. It increased the speed like the Autopilot increasedit the engines started to spool up  like i was pushing forward the throttles.

Alfredo Russo

I must clarify my previous comment on the speedbrakes, use of them with flaps greater than 5 should be avoided.

Meh I'd say that's more of a suggestion. Otherwise a lot of 777's would have a tough time managing a fast approach such as 160knts to 4DME. I had some questions myself about managing the aircraft's speed on ILS/RNAV and a RW pilot told me he is always finding himself using speedbrakes to gear retraction - sometimes she just wants to keep 180/160 :-P. But I agree that excessive use isn't good past a certain point on the approach. She actually descends really nicely and manages speed well in FLCH against some other aircraft.

 

I think the tightest I've got was once during testing I was vectoring in Madrid - didn't realise I was keeping 220knts at 10DME on the ILS!! I literally got back to VREF+5 about two/three miles lol. Was interesting though...

Boeing777_Banner_Betateam.jpg
 

- Luke Pabari

Clear Explanation! Thaks very much  ! But i was not clear speed didnt increase as the plane was descending that was pretty normal. It increased the speed like the Autopilot increasedit the engines started to spool up  like i was pushing forward the throttles.

 

The VNAV mode won't pull speed below something like 170kts on it's own, you will need to intervene (press the speed knob and then select a lower number) or move to a different mode (SPD or FLCH) and use the dial to select a lower speed like 160 or Vref+5 (or speed bug 20 as appropriate) on the MCP.

 

If you are in VNAV and the speed windows is blank at glideslope capture, I believe it will hold 170 knots, adding throttle power to keep it there if need be.

 

This is different to 737NG which does slow down in VNAV to Vref+5 or Vref+10 with the window closed in some situations (like coupled VNAV-LNAV for an RNP or VOR/NDB or other NPA Approach Approach. Tautology yay)

qfafin.jpg
Trent Hopkinson, 2015 Crewmember of www.mangrove.com.au WorldFlight sim

          Youtube channel www.youtube.com/user/musicalaviator

  • Author

Yes i was descending in FLCH 

Alfredo Russo

So, more a procedural question than a concern about whether things are working correctly, or realistically:

 

I find myself after commanding Descent (rolling down from cruise altitude to 2k ft. or 0), that despite having VNAV/LNAV on all the way down, I tend to "ride" the MCP Speed knob to keep the little tick mark at the right point between ANP/RNP on the little gauge on the right of the PFD.

 

If left to its own automatic devices, it tends to oscillate around the middle point (i.e. it will be above/below programmed VNAV PTH, I assume, by x amount of feet/kilometers), but eventually settle.

 

Is it reasonable practice to micromanage the MCP the way I do? Or should I just let VNAV PTH do its thing?

 

Any of the issues on descent are usually just that I'm coming in too fast, which application of spdbrake/flaps controls, mainly.  But I can control rate of descent, and speed, against each other, just using the MCP SPD knob as well, which seems more granular, and more exciting for my virtual passengers..... ;)

 

Still hunting around in the manuals for the best explanation of this (and it's mentioned RNP/ANP will be in next tutorial.....), PDF search function is my friend, I know -- but would appreciate any tips.

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