Hello, guys

 

I'm doing a little research on how to fly the NGX with step climbs, thanks to our new toy, PFPX.

Before PFPX, I used to just select a cruise FL around 360, setup the FMS and then go to the progress page, check witch was the optimal FL, set that to the new cruise FL, and the set the next FL in the step climb line to do a step climb.

 

Now, for example in the flight I did today, PFPX gave an initial cruise of 16000 due to an airway limitation, after that a step climb to FL280,  80 miles after this, an optimal FL of 360; and after quite a while another step to 380.

 

My question is, how is it managed in real life?

• If I set 16000 as cruise level in the PERF INIT page, then I can't set the other restrictions in the waypoints cause FLXXXS doesn't seem to work with this FMS version.
• If I set 380 as a cruise level then i can set the restrictions in the waypoints but then the engines will remain in CLB performance until we reach FL380; and it is not suposed to be that way, right?
• The last option, and I think this is the only way in the NGX, is to set the initial cruise altitud at 16000 and then to the steps climbs manually until 360, and then use the step climb line on the CRS page to do the last step.

 

What do you guys think?

 

This is the route just in case: KDCA/19 N0413A160 NATNL3 DCA V8 MRB/N0460F280 J162 MGW/N0461F360 J162 DJB J34

           DLL J68 GEP/N0458F380 J70 ABR J90 HLN J34 ODESS EPH6 KSEA/16L

 

Thanks a lot.

Sorry Double Post.

Delete please.

Hi,

 

Here's what I do in "the real thing":

I always put the max altitude of the OFP or the FL that is closest to the optimum (if thats lower than the planned FL) on the cruise page, and then just set the restrictions on the MCP. Most of the time controllers will clear you to your higher planned FL anyways. There's no harm done when engine logic remains in CLB mode.....

To me 16k looks like an intermediate level-off. FL280 looks not well planned; correct CRZ FL would be FL360 with a single step climb to FL380.

 

So, punch in FL360 as your (initial) CRZ FL. During climb, level off at 16.000 until passing the restricted waypoint. Plan for a step climb to FL380.

Agree with Ollie.

Thanks guys for your answers..

 

 

 

To me 16k looks like an intermediate level-off. FL280 looks not well planned; correct CRZ FL would be FL360 with a single step climb to FL380.

 

Olli, at first I did a full auto route find on PFPX, but it gave me too much directs waypoint, with 400 miles between them.

I didn't like to much that, so I went to advanced mode and hit "No directs" options and it made another route but over a victor airway most of the time making fly half of the route at 16000.

Finally I edited myself, and that was the result. The FL280 level-off, don't know where it came from, I'm still learning PFPX.

Thanks guys for your answers..

 

 

 

 

Olli, at first I did a full auto route find on PFPX, but it gave me too much directs waypoint, with 400 miles between them.

I didn't like to much that, so I went to advanced mode and hit "No directs" options and it made another route but over a victor airway most of the time making fly half of the route at 16000.

Finally I edited myself, and that was the result. The FL280 level-off, don't know where it came from, I'm still learning PFPX.

 

 

Compare the sheer number of support issues (bug reports???) on the Aerosoft forum ...

 

Don't own PFPX myself, but a flightplanner that keeps you so low for half of your flight?

I dont get why, but it thinks Low Altitude airways also have to be below FL160. The actual valid levels on these (and yes, I checked Airservices Australia sourced charts to confirm) is actually FL240.

It's doing a few funky things, so I'm often still doing my usual flightplanning methods any time I find a route I suspect isn't 100%. flightaware, skyvector, vataware etc..

I dont get why, but it thinks Low Altitude airways also have to be below FL160. The actual valid levels on these (and yes, I checked Airservices Australia sourced charts to confirm) is actually FL240.

It's doing a few funky things, so I'm often still doing my usual flightplanning methods any time I find a route I suspect isn't 100%. flightaware, skyvector, vataware etc..

In the US, low altitude "V" airways have an altitude range of 1200 feet AGL up to, (but not including)18,000 feet. 18,000 feet is the default transition altitude throughout the US, above which altitudes are expressed as Flight Level xxx.

 

Airway V8 goes from DCA to MRB on a course of 319 degrees. Because flights on headings between 180 and 359 degrees must fly at even altitudes, the selection of 16,000 feet is correct. That would be the maximum altitude you could use for an IFR flight in a northwesterly direction on a "V" airway.

 

Jet "J" airways in the US, normally are found from FL 180 up to FL 450, but occasionally a Jet airway segment may have a published MAA (Maximum Authorized Altitude). That is the case with J162, which has a MAA of FL 290 between MRB and MGW, so PFPX is correct in limiting the (westbound) flight to FL 280 for the MRB to MGW segment of J162. Beyond MGW, the FL 290 restriction is removed.

 

The interesting thing is that airway J162 is a single-direction airway between the hours of 1100Z to 0300Z. (i.e. between 7:00AM and 11:00PM local time in the US Eastern time zone). During those hours, J162 is restricted to eastbound traffic only. The reason for that restriction is that J162 is heavily used by incoming flights descending to land at the two Washington DC airports IAD and DCA from the west during those hours.

 

I know that PFPX is aware of single-direction airways, so it should not have assigned J162 to a westbound flight.... UNLESS the flight was planned to take place between 0300Z and 1100Z. During those hours (late night in the US), J162 CAN be used for flights in either direction.

 

Whether PFPX is "smart enough" to not only be aware of single-direction airways, but also the hours they are in effect, is something I don't know.

 

During the daytime hours, the options for airways routings are somewhat limited for northwest-bound flights out of DCA, which is probably why PFPX suggested direct routings in the initial auto-route attempt.

 

It would be instructive to check flightaware to see what flight plans realworld flights are using for that same route.

 

 

 

Hello, guys

 

I'm doing a little research on how to fly the NGX with step climbs, thanks to our new toy, PFPX.

Before PFPX, I used to just select a cruise FL around 360, setup the FMS and then go to the progress page, check witch was the optimal FL, set that to the new cruise FL, and the set the next FL in the step climb line to do a step climb.

 

Now, for example in the flight I did today, PFPX gave an initial cruise of 16000 due to an airway limitation, after that a step climb to FL280, 80 miles after this, an optimal FL of 360; and after quite a while another step to 380.

 

My question is, how is it managed in real life?

• If I set 16000 as cruise level in the PERF INIT page, then I can't set the other restrictions in the waypoints cause FLXXXS doesn't seem to work with this FMS version.
  
• If I set 380 as a cruise level then i can set the restrictions in the waypoints but then the engines will remain in CLB performance until we reach FL380; and it is not suposed to be that way, right?
  
• The last option, and I think this is the only way in the NGX, is to set the initial cruise altitud at 16000 and then to the steps climbs manually until 360, and then use the step climb line on the CRS page to do the last step.
  

What do you guys think?

 

This is the route just in case: KDCA/19 N0413A160 NATNL3 DCA V8 MRB/N0460F280 J162 MGW/N0461F360 J162 DJB J34

DLL J68 GEP/N0458F380 J70 ABR J90 HLN J34 ODESS EPH6 KSEA/16L

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Sorry Double Post.

Delete please.

See my response to "Hopskip" as to why PFPX gave you an altitude restriction of 16,000 feet for V8 from DCA to MRB, and FL280 from MRB to MGW.

 

Looking at Flightaware, it appears that RW flights from DCA to SEA, typically begin BUFFR J518 IHD DJB, then they pick up airway J34 at DJB as in the latter part of your PFPX route. During the daytime, I assume RW flights go this way during the initial segments as J162 would not be available for flights to the west.

 

If you wanted to fly it in the NGX as per the PFPX route, what I would do is to enter your initial optimum cruise altitude in the FMS, say FL320 or FL340. Then on the LEGS page, put an altitude restriction of 16,000 feet at MRB, and FL280 at MGW. If you then fly in VNAV mode, the aircraft will level off at 16,000 until MRB, climb to FL280 until reaching MGW, and will then climb to your planned optimum cruise altitude until the time for your first FMS-calculated step climb. I see you mentioned this as an option, but noted that the engine performance mode stays in CLB. I don't think that really has any significance. Even if the mode indicates CLB, the engines will still throttle back to the most fuel-efficient power setting when leveling off for the two altitude-restricted segments.

Yeap, I know why it gave me those altitudes, and the fact it gave me J162 even when i shouldn't be flying it because of the one way direction restrictions is because after the second auto route attempt i "fixed" it my self choosing the airways that suit me the most, but not paying to much attention to the restrictions, not because I didn't care but because I didn't knew.

 

I'm learning as I go.  :Big Grin:

 

I was wondering how should I fly this route if by any change could be a validated route.

Yeap, I know why it gave me those altitudes, and the fact it gave me J162 even when i shouldn't be flying it because of the one way direction restrictions is because after the second auto route attempt i "fixed" it my self choosing the airways that suit me the most, but not paying to much attention to the restrictions, not because I didn't care but because I didn't knew.

 

I'm learning as I go. :Big Grin:

 

I was wondering how should I fly this route if by any change could be a validated route.

 

The US doesn't have any kind of pre-flight route validation to compare with the European CFMU. You can file just about anything with ATC, and the system will accept it.

 

The problem comes when you call clearance delivery on the ramp prior to departure. If your initial filed route is valid, ATC will simply say "cleared as filed", and you are good to go. But, if part or all of the route is not useable (like if you filed J162 heading westbound from DCA), then ATC will give you a completely new route on the radio, which you have to write down as the controller is dictating it, read back to the controller (without errors), and then enter the new route in your FMS or GPS before you can taxi.

 

Not a big problem for an airliner, parked at the gate and running on ground power, but it can be a big pain in a small aircraft, when you have already started the engine, and are ready to taxi.

 

I've never flown in Europe except in the sim, but as far as I know, if you file a CFMU validated route, you are assured that you will get exactly that route from clearance delivery before taxi.