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kama2004

Interesting reading about AA in DX11 on Nvidia forum

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Apparently we are not the only ones complaining about AA implementation in P3D

 

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/544701/geforce-drivers/petition-for-directx-11-anti-aliasing-driver-profiles/

 

There is even a petition running from last may...

 

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/544701/petition-for-directx-11-anti-aliasing-driver-profiles/?offset=300#3951791

 

So the problem is not a simple one to solve...

 

 

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So the problem is not a simple one to solve...

 

This is one area in P3D V2 that is quite a disappointment to me.  The DX9 options are very much superior in DX9/FSX and I find when FXAA is on in V2 the image is way to soft/fuzzy to be realistic, so I leave it off and live w/o quality AA, which is pretty sad for Y2014!   I hope this can be addressed but as you say no it's been a known problem for awhile now and one would assume there must be technical challenges else this would have already been addressed.  At least LM is aware of the problem and may be pressuring nVidia to implement driver settings in DX11 that can function properly in V2:

 

Why aren’t NVIDIA driver overrides aren’t working?
Rest assured that we aren’t disabling these on purpose. We want all our users to have the broadest set up tweaks and tools at their disposal to get the most out of Prepar3D v2. We’ve been working with NVIDIA to try to track this down. Some of the overrides may not actually work with any D3D11 application. Thus far, NVIDIA has not given us any feedback to indicate that we need to do anything more on our end to enable these overrides. We will keep working with them to resolve the issue. For now, most driver overrides won’t work.

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It's really not as simple as just getting  Nvidia (and AMD) to flick a switch to allow a DX11 game to use overrides... Some shading/rendering and lightning techniques just by the nature of how they work will not respond to overrides no matter what Nvidia do. Lots of game developers have to bake traditional AA into it into the engine themselves.. AMD has the same issue. Heck, I've had DX9 games with AMD and Nvidia cards not respond to overrides because of the shader/rendering technique that was used.. 

 

 There is a reason its end users who are calling for Nvidia to do something and not video game makers.  

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Reading various AA gaming blogs it seems DX10/11 and AA have always been a battle. Regardless of the application/GAME.

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It's because most DX10/11 games are venturing into real time lighting and shadows..  

 

Just an excerpt about Deferred Shading from Wiki

 

One more rather important disadvantage is that, due to separating the lighting stage from the geometric stage, hardware anti-aliasing does not produce correct results any more: although the first pass used when rendering the basic properties (diffuse, normal etc.) can use anti-aliasing, it's not until full lighting has been applied that anti-alias is needed. One of the usual techniques to overcome this limitation is using edge detection on the final image and then applying blur over the edges,[6] however recently more advanced post-process edge-smoothing techniques have been developed, such as MLAA[7] (used in Killzone 3 and Dragon Age 2, among others), FXAA[8] (used in Crysis 2, FEAR 3, Duke Nukem Forever), SRAA,[9] DLAA[10] (used in Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II), post MSAA (used in Crysis 2 as default anti-aliasing solution). Although it is not an edge-smoothing technique, Temporal anti-aliasing (used in Halo Reach) can also help give edges a smoother appearance.[11] DirectX 10 introduced features allowing shaders to access individual samples in multisampled render targets (and depth buffers in version 10.1), making hardware anti-aliasing possible in deferred shading. These features also make it possible to correctly apply HDR luminance mapping to anti-aliased edges, where in earlier hardware any benefit of anti-aliasing may be lost, making this form of anti-aliasing desirable in any case.

 

 

 

It's all in the game makers hands.. Look at AC4.. It has almost every-single AA method under the sun baked into the game itself and it's a full DX11 Deferred Shader game.

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It's all in the game makers hands.. Look at AC4.. It has almost every-single AA method under the sun baked into the game itself and it's a full DX11 Deferred Shader game.

 

It sounds like the person who wrote the rendering FAQ for V2 at LM wasn't aware of the idea the solution isn't likely going to lie in getting overrides to work, but instead perhaps to offer more options in-game.

 

Have you seen some of the AA in AC4?  If so, do you find them superior to FXAA in V2?  I use Super CVAA 64X 4v12 I think it's called in FSX and find that is the best AA option for my eyes and is vastly superior to V2's FXAA.  I hope this is improved as to me this is a substantial deficit, though not a show-stopper per se.

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It sounds like the person who wrote the rendering FAQ for V2 at LM wasn't aware of the idea the solution isn't likely going to lie in getting overrides to work, but instead perhaps to offer more options in-game.

 

Have you seen some of the AA in AC4?  If so, do you find them superior to FXAA in V2?  I use Super CVAA 64X 4v12 I think it's called in FSX and find that is the best AA option for my eyes and is vastly superior to V2's FXAA.  I hope this is improved as to me this is a substantial deficit, though not a show-stopper per se.

 

The AA in AC4 is easily one of the most robust as far as scaling of AA I've seen "IN" a PC game in a long time.. It scales perfectly for low end - beast computers.. So it's hard to compare when v2 only has FXAA and 8XMSAA..  Plus both engines are different.. So results will greatly vary. 

 

This is the AA available at my disposable in AC4 all in game provided by the developer

 

FXAA

SMAA

MSAA 2X

MSAA 4X

CSAA 4X(8X)

CSAA 4x(16x)

MSAA 8X

CSAA 8X(8x)

CSAA 8X(16)

TXAA 2X

TXAA 4X

 

So, as you see there is something there for just about everyone..  No need to play with inspector.. It's all right there in the options.. Most games now a days you're lucky if you even get MSAA as an option. Too many just ride on FXAA and call it a day.. 

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So, as you see there is something there for just about everyone..  No need to play with inspector.. It's all right there in the options..

 

Hey that's great!  I think it's reasonable to post this at LM in the suggestions forum as again they didn't mention this basic approach to improving AA at least not in the rendering FAQ.  Maybe someone has I don't know but I will again even if they did.  If somehow they missed this then it will be not useful to be waiting for nV to 'fix' the problem.

 

Cheers

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