Net Framework Mentioned in AVSIM CTD Guide

[sbclark]

Hi,

 

I love the new AVSIM CTD Guide recently published. I do have a question about the Net Framework Versions Installed on my Flight Sim PC.

 

After running the Microsoft Net Framework verification tool, I found I have all versions except the following ones:

 

Net Framework 1.0

Net Framework 1.1

Net Framework 1.1 SP

 

Do I need all three, and where do I get them?

 

Bill Clark

[Jim Young]

Hi Bill,

 

Dotnet 1.1 can be found at the following link - http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=26.  If you look down at the bottom of the page of downloads, you'll see "View More".  Click on that and you'll have links to everything you might need. 

 

As stated in the AVSIM CTD Guide, you'll need dotnet 1.1 through the latest.  You do not need dotnet 1.0.  When you install FSX, dotnet 1.1 should be installed (if not found on your system).  FSX addon developers will also include the appropriate dotnet in their install package if not found on your system.  It's the dotnet package they used to make sure their addon runs as intended, including managing the memory.  Windows Update should be download updates to all of the packages you have installed.

 

Best regards,

Jim

[sbclark]

Thanks Jim,

 

I did check and got version 1.1 However, there is a Microsoft location that provides the Service Pack 1 to .Net Framework here:

 

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=33

 

Please note I also got this warning when I installed version 1.1, so I'm wondering, do we need to SP1 to fix whatever it is complaining about?

 

Bill Clark

[Jim Young]

Hi Bill,

 

You should already have version 1.1 installed.  Look in Windows/Microsoft.net/Framework/then the versions installed will be listed.  Make sure you are only installing the 32 bit versions.  Windows Update might install the 64 bit versions but they are not needed even in a 64 bit Windows operating system environment.  Here's the fix for dotnet 1.1 - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/895963.  I installed FSX on my Windows 7 system recently and had no problems getting dotnet 1.1 installed (like I said, it comes with FSX).  To be honest I have never seen this error message before.  It's strange that Microsoft has not fixed it with an update.   

 

I have v1.1.4322 installed.  Not sure if that's an SP or not.  There is an SP1 for Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 which must be installed if you have Acceleration.  If there is an SP version, I would try installing that one instead of the 1.1 version.  Like you said it might have fixed the problem but, according to the link I provided, that is not one of the fixes.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

[sbclark]

Jim,

 

When I ran the .Net Framework Verification tool, (see attached image) it did not show anything existing below version 2.0.

 

So, I may have originally had the .Net Framework 1.1 originally installed when I installed FSX, but it may have been deleted at a later time by the updating to the latest .Net Framework version.

 

I have to assume that the Service Pack 1 for .Net Framework 1.1, was to fix the issue illustrated when I attached my .jpg image to my previous response 

 

The only version in the "Uninstall or Change a Program" section of Control Panel now is Microsoft .Net Framework 4.5.1. So when I run the verification tool, see image below, all earlier versions, except 1.1 must actually be embedded in 4.5.1?

 

Bill Clark

[Jim Young]

 

 

So when I run the verification tool, see image below, all earlier versions, except 1.1 must actually be embedded in 4.5.1?

 

It would be nice if we could just have one version (v4.5.1)(and maybe we can) but I did a Google search asking "are Microsoft.net packages backwards compatible".  Most of the responses, especially from Microsoft techs, stated they are not backward compatible.  It is strange you cannot install anything prior to 2.0.  Here's my installation back when I last reinstalled FSX in November:

 

 

I noticed I don't even have dotnet 4.5.1 installed but, in my add/remove programs section it shows it was installed in November too.  Are you sure you are trying to install the 32 bit version as there is no 64 bit version below 2.0 (at least not on my system)? 

 

Best regards,

[Tabs]

It doesn't even really make sense to talk about these being "backwards compatible" - they're application runtime dependencies similar to the Visual C++ ones most people are familiar with. (.NET is primarily the C# language) Essentially you need to have the runtime that corresponds to the version of .NET that an application was coded with installed for it to run properly. Don't think of it like normal software where version 4.5 contains everything in 2.0 or anything like that - the version installed just needs to match the version the application in question was programmed with.

[sbclark]

Ryan and Jim,

 

When I ran this Microsoft provided .Net Framework Verification tool, (see attached) it stated "Product Verification Completed" after I pressed the "Verify Now" button for each version that supposedly is installed, or that the code is compatible with particular version. I don't know enough about what .Net Framework does to articulate my thoughts properly, but I just want to make sure I have everything configured correctly?

 

BTW - you have to select each version from the pull down menu and test it separately before moving on to another version selection. As Jim stated in the thread, I need to have version 1.1, which doesn't even show up in the verification tool on my first pass.

 

I did download version 1.1, and it now it does shows up in the "Uninstall or Change a Program" along with version 4.5.1 in the Control Panel. Also, when I run the .Net Framework Verification  tool, .Net Framework version 1.1 now finally appears in the pull down menu. I also found a Microsoft link that has an SP1 for .Net Framework 1.1

 

So my fundamental question is, do I really need 1.1 and the SP1 that goes with it, or does version 4.5.1 cover all the bases? In other words, what do I need to do next?

 

This all started with a shut down issue after flying the PMDG 737 NGX where FSX crashes and the Faulting module is KERNALBASE.dll. So, I was going thru the new AVSIM CTD Guide published in Dec 2013 to see if I could see if my system is configured properly. This document looks like it will be a great tool for many to troubleshoot issues like this.

 

I'm confused as to a path forward.

 

Bill Clark

[Jim Young]

 

 

This all started with a shut down issue after flying the PMDG 737 NGX where FSX crashes and the Faulting module is KERNALBASE.dll.

 

For PMDG, they use Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 now and I would assume that matches up with dotnet 4.5.  So, in this case I would not be concerned with dotnet 1.1 BUT you definitely need to have Microsoft Visual 2005 w/SP1 and MSV 2008 installed.  I have read several posts where individuals have removed MSV 2005 and it no longer starts up.  Dotnet packages are used AFTER the product is installed to make sure it runs as intended.  The kernelbase.dll is part of the operating system and not associated with FSX.  It usually means your User Profile is corrupt.  It could also mean a registry corruption or maybe a hardware driver is not up to date.  Have you ever run a driver update program?  They are freeware and you can download and run it and it will tell you if a driver is out of date.  You can then pay a small registration fee to have the program download and install the driver for you or you can take a look at the outdated driver, do a Google search and locate the driver yourself, download and install it.  Drivers are constantly being updated as manufacturers fix bugs or find ways to make the product work better.  In any event, the program will tell you if you have a problem in this area.  Windows Update does not normally provide updates for your installed hardware, like HDD's, USB ports, etc.  They do for video cards and they might for sound cards too but not for your other hardware that could be causing this type of error.  I use a program called Driver Scanner but there are several software programs out there that do the same thing.  Just search for 'update drivers' and you should get a lot of hits.  Hope this helps!

 

Glad Ryan has posted to further explain.  He's the true expert as I'm not into programming (but I do read a lot of crash reports! :lol: ).

 

Best regards,

[sbclark]

Jim,

 

Thanks for the advice, I will follow your suggestions.

 

However, I'm still confused about Ryan's explanation. As the AVSIM CTD documentation states, I should have version 1.0 of .Net Framework installed?

 

So do I need to add it, and what does it do for me?

 

The version 1.0 may have been installed at one time, I just don't remember if it was or not. Or possibly, as Microsoft updated the .Net Framework software modules later to fix issues or add new features, they may have over-ridden version 1.0, or just deleted it.

 

So what is the impact if I install .Net Frameworkit or not?

 

Thanks for your Help,

Bill Clark

[Jim Young]

 

 

However, I'm still confused about Ryan's explanation. As the AVSIM CTD documentation states, I should have version 1.0 of .Net Framework installed?

 

 

 

So what is the impact if I install .Net Frameworkit or not?

 

Hi Bill,

You do not install any of the dotnet's.  They are installed for you by the application's installer.  The software user should never have to go looking throughout the Internet looking for older versions so they will have the appropriate version installed.  Version 1.1 is installed with FSX and Version 2 is installed with SP1, SP2/Acceleration.  The CTD Guide states you should have version 1.1 through the latest installed.  AVSIM made this recommendation as many experience CTD's or application freezes and they found that after they found and installed the proper version, the CTD's and freezes went away. What is Microsoft.net frameworks?  Check this link:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework.  If you look down to the history of Microsoft.net, you'll see Version 2 was developed about the same time as FSX was developed.  However, if you ever install FSX on a clean installation, you'll see Version 1.1 is installed on your system after the installation is complete.  Version 1.0 was developed around the times of FS9 and maybe some earlier versions of FS.  If you start removing certain versions because you think they were replaced by a later version, then you could have problems.  Take for instance Orbx/FTX.  They specifically state you must have Microsoft.net 4.0 installed: 

 

 

This use to state Microsoft.net 3.5 was required so they updated their products to the 4.0 framework.  FSX does not have that luxury/ability to have their developers update it so it can be used in 3.5, 4.0, or 4.5 environments.  FSX development stopped. 

 

So, whether an earlier dotnet will crash your computer is debatable.  It may or may not affect the efficient operation of FSX as dotnet's are used by the developers in their programming to make sure the product they developed is running/operating as intended.  One has to wonder why Microsoft is still updating and providing links to versions 1.0 to the latest though.  If you are not getting any crashes with just dotnet 4.0 and above, then that's great.  We just recommend you have the 1.1 through 4.5 frameworks installed just in case it's needed by an app. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,