Does household voltage affect my OC?

[ryanbatc 12,933]

Alright.  Let's pretend it's a case grounding issue.  Is there something in particular I should look for?  I have the older style 650d case where the front USB3 ports are actually just USB cables than run through the case.  Would that have anything to do with it?  Otherwise I found a ieee1394 mobo connector (comes off the PSU) lying on the bottom of my case - one of the tiny colored wires was out of the bundle (not exposed copper) and was touching my case - could that be a factor?

 

This seems to actually be a common problem (maybe not common but lots of people have the issue from looking on the net).  Would it be something with the front panel perhaps?  the three times I've seen it reboot when someone touched it were all on the front panel.  Should I run a copper wire from inside front panel to the bottom of the case?

[ryanbatc 12,933]

Shoot I can't edit.

 

I've got two theories about power:

1) when my PC was plugged into the UPS and it rebooted without me touching it, I theorize the voltage dropped say below 110v, the ups boosted it to 124v, the motherboard/PSU took it as a surge and instructed PC to reboot.

 

2) When PC is not plugged into UPS AND THE LINE VOLTAGE IS LOW, someone develops a large enough static discharge, touches the PC and the voltage increase also comes off as a surge according to the motherboard/PSU and reboots.

 

Am I way off with regards to power and understanding of electricity?

[RickB1293 9]

Static electricity can cause damage to board components if you're not properly grounded when handling them. It would take quite a jolt - like a lightning strike to get passed all the bonding and ground connections within the case. Each board mounting screw has a path to ground that ensures that a static build up doesn't pass through components. The actual energy within your typical in home "shock" is very, very small and won't overcome the ground path from your case to earth ground.

 

Also, your board has a set of voltage regulators designed to protect you CPU and other components from all but the worse surges. If a surge should overwhelm the on board power conditioning your board would probably fry and it would be fatal.

 

Here is a good analogy helpful to understanding how electricity works. Voltage is the pressure in the system. Think of it as the psi (pounds per square inch) in your water pipe. The flow of water through the pipe measured in gallons per minute is like electrical current measured in amps. All physical things have a resistance to state change. Resistance in our water pipe is directly related the the cross sectional size of the pipe.

 

Likewise electrical resistance is related to the cross sectional area of a wire or pathway, known as it's gauge. The composition of the wire or path also effects a device's resistance as does it's temperature. If we want to maintain a certain flow rate through a pipe or amperage through a circuit we have to apply enough pressure or voltage to overcome the resistance. The product of pressure times flow rate or voltage times amperage is call force or power. That's why the high pressure machine you use to wash your house or car is called a "power" washer.

 

In electricity, power is measured in watts. The measure of power applied over time yields the energy used. The electric meter on the side of your house is called a kilowatt hour meter and it measures the energy you use over a given period of time. The power company charges a price for each kilowatt hour used.

 

Electrical devices are rated for voltage and power. A hundred watt light bulb in your 120 volt house circuit draws about .8 amps. The same hundred watt bulb in your car's 12 volt circuit draws 8 amps. Both bulbs are rated at 100 watts but the automotive bulb draws 100 times the current and must have a filament that withstands that current. You'll probably notice that light bulbs are also rated for average life. A typical incandescent bulb is rated for 2000 hours of use. That's because the bulb "wears out" based on the energy it uses, not just the power it absorbs.

 

That's basic electricity in a nutshell I hope it gives you some insight into its complexity.

[ryanbatc 12,933]

That's pretty good, thanks.

 

I'm still unsure of what's causing the reboots - whether some component is not grounded I don't know.  I finally got my PSU tester but haven't had much time to test.  So far I've taken my PC completely off the battery backup and have avoided touching it until I've touched something else in my basement that usually discharges static hehe.  I was even considering a humidifier to moisten up  the room a little - it is still quite dry - my daugher's hair stands up straight anytime she rolls around on the floor lol!

 

I'm beginning to wonder if other people's PC's could handle the ultra dry static air we have down here....

[LHookins 3,104]

One place I worked we had a severe problem with static electricity.  If you scrubbed your feet on the carpet, you could generate a half-inch spark when approaching a grounded light switch plate screw with a key.  That's 50,000 volts.  I fried the modem on a motherboard by carrying the cord to the wall and got a static shock, and I wasn't even holding the connector.

 

We tried all sorts of ways to get rid of the static, even had a professional in to spray the carpet, but nothing worked.  Eventually someone sprayed Downey fabric softener on the carpet and the static problems went away and never came back.  It might be worth a try.  It may not fix your computer problems, but it'll do wonders for your daughter's hair.

 

Hook

[ryanbatc 12,933]

Haha...  yeah there's a light switch (three dimmers) that always gives about a 1/4 spark from my finger to the screw after walking on the carpet.

 

The other issue with the UPS seems to be partially solved (bandaid) by leaving the PC plugged into the surge protector and not the UPS....    Line dropped to 110v this evening, the UPS was boosting to 128v off and on.  I'm thinking the psu/mobo doesn't like it.

[RickB1293 9]

Ryan-

 

How is the relative humidity in your house? These below zero winters suck the humidity out of the air do you have a humidifier? They are the fix for high static charges.

 

Rick

 

BTW- are you sick of this weather yet. Still -5F this AM in the Cities.

Oh I forgot- Are any other appliances, cable boxes, TVs resetting?

[ryanbatc 12,933]

I haven't specifically measured but I'm guessing lower than an average winter home. We do have a small humidifier I was going to try.

 

No other devices do it but I don't touch the tv or ps3 - all done with remotes.

 

Yeah ready to get out of our second polar vortex!

[westom 0]

I haven't specifically measured but I'm guessing lower than an average winter home. We do have a small humidifier I was going to try.

 

 Reading so many replies is a classic example of knowledge only from observation. For example, numbers should have been provided for what is a normal 120 VAC voltage.  Good power for any computer is voltage from 85 to 130 VAC.  112 to 116 is well within that range.

 

If measuring receptacle voltages properly, then the neutral to ground measurement should not have been 0 volts.  Either a wiring defect exists, the meter was not set to a low enough range, or measurements were being made without something consuming power from that circuit.

 

  Do lights dim or brighten when a major appliance power cycles?  That implies a house wiring problem.

 

  Moving on.  A UPS does not do power conditioning.  In fact, some of the 'dirtiest' power seen by a computer comes from a UPS in battery backup mode.  For example, this 120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts.  Those square waves and spikes are created by a sum of pure sine waves.  So the naive assume is it pure power.

 

  Meanwhile, superior powre conditioning inside all computers makes a 'dirtiest' UPS power into ideal perfect and stable DC voltages.  Best conditioner should be inside a computer so that even 'dirty' UPS power causes no problem.

 

  The not battery backup outlets on a UPS are no different than connecting the computer directly to that duplex receptacle.  UPS surge outlets or connected directly to any other receptacle is, electrically, the same connection.

 

 A better safety ground means a static discharge to a wall receptacle or switch is more painful.  Static is made irrelevant by protection provided by a case and keyboard of better computers. However we never rely on one layer of protection.  That means a room should be at least 40% relative humidity so that larger (but usually not harmful) static discharges do not exist.

 

  Meanwhile even where screws are locating inside the case can make a system crash due to static discharge. Like every paragraph here, details are too long to discuss in one post.  But static discharge is a tool that may even identify an internal system problem

 

  I'm hardly sure where to begin.  But you should again ask relevant questions for answers provided by some who actually do this stuff.  How do you separate hearsay from knowledge?  Knowledge also says why and provides perspective (ie numbers).  No numbers is a first indication of hearsay from advertising and urban myths.

 

  Some good info has been posted.  For example the WD Lifeguard diagnostics and CrystalDiskInfor provide hard facts necessary to avoid the 'it could be this or might be that' speculation.

 

  Polarity tester or a PSU tester are wasted money.  Will not report something relelvant; cannot report a PSU as good.  An outlet teseter cannot even say safety ground is good.  It can only identify some safety ground defects.

 

   Your computer is intermittent?  First step starts with numbers from six wires using a multimeter.  Since a defective 'power system' component will still boot a computer and cause strange, intermittent failures.  Numbers using a meter can even identify a supply that will cause failures months later.  BIOS readings are mostly useless until calibrated with a meter.  To some, 12.3 volts is good.  However that same number can identify a defect - if numbers from the six wires are provided AND with proper loading.  Again, the point.  Useful answers need or are based in specific numbers.

[ryanbatc 12,933]

I'm having some issues understanding your post.

 

I do have a multimeter but what exactly should I be testing? Also are you saying it's better to have the power supply on surge and NOT on battery backup? At least in my observation, having my PC off the battery seems more stable.

[westom 0]

I do have a multimeter but what exactly should I be testing? Also are you saying it's better to have the power supply on surge and NOT on battery backup?

The paragraph discussed surge outlet verses wall receptacle.  They are electrically same.  It said nothing about battery backup outlets. 

 

Battery backup outlets typically connect a computer directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode.  IOW, as if connected directly to a wall receptacle; operates electrically as if connected directly.

 

  Most of what was posted is probably completely new.  And sometimes contradicts popular beliefs.  Rereads may be necessary.

 

  Moving on.  Start by collecting some essential facts. Set the meter to 20 VDC scale.  Black probe attached to chassis.  Computer is off but connected to a wall receptacle.  Locate where the PSU's purple wire connects to motherboard.  Push the red probe into that nylon connector to read purple wire voltage.  It should be about 5 volts.  But all three digits are necessary.

 

  Next touch the green wire.  It will read something less than 5.  Again, all three digits report useful information.  Press the power button to monitor what happens on the green wire (how fast it changes).  It should read a number between 0 and 0.7.  Report that number.

 

  Repeat same for the gray wire.  It will start somewhere near zero.  Report how fast it rises when the power buttton is pressed.  And its final voltage.

 

  Finally, setup the computer to execute to all components.  IOW download from the Internet, while searching disks, while executing complex graphs (ie a movie), while reading a CD player, while playing sounds, while accessing USB devices, etc.  Now hardware is ready to report more numbers.  Measure any one red, orange, and yellow wires.  Report those numbers to three digits.

 

  Information is embedded in those numbers.  Provided will be why it is significant, and, most important, how a power 'system' is relevant to intermittents.

[imjimh 0]

I had the same problem. The UPS battery needs to be replaced 2.5-3yr mark..without fail...ju

(con't) just happened to me...battery in ups ran 40.00. Up and running!

[ryanbatc 12,933]

That could take some time... I'll see what I can do.

[ryanbatc 12,933]

Also am I understanding this correctly: if I am shocked by the front bezel, the case is properly grounded?

[westom 0]

Also am I understanding this correctly: if I am shocked by the front bezel, the case is properly grounded?

 

  By shocked, I assume you refer to static electric discharge.  Understand the electric circuit.  Static discharge is a connection from charges in your body to charges beneath shoes.  How good is that connection?  Things you consider not conductive will conduct that discharge current.  A stronger (more painful) discharge indicates a better connection. 

 

 Discharge to various wall switch and receptacle plates.  A better safety ground means the discharge should be more painful - makes a more conductive connection to charges beneath your feet.

 

  Appreciate that even wood, some wall paints, concrete, and linoleum tile are electrical conductors. Insufficiently conductive to properly safety ground the chassis.  But conductive enough to discharge a finger (with less pain).