Does household voltage affect my OC?

[ryanbatc]

Yeah we were talking at work and thinking board.

 

Maybe my over clock died and killed something on the board at the same time. I'll closely inspect the board tonight. I'll reseat all the cables too.

 

I'll check the rails again for voltages but I think they're all good.

 

If it is the PSU I think it's under warranty still .

[ryanbatc]

The forums are back yay!

 

So I thought I found a problem with a component on my board but when I compared against an early picture the piece was still out of place - so probably not the board.

 

I reseated the cables on the board and cleaned out my GPU.

 

Ive got a friend coming over tomorrow with another PSU to test.

 

One thing I've stumbled on is this odd error I'm getting reference the page file settings. Windows tells me I've got no page file or I do but it's less than a MB. On my screen I show system managed. I'm still not sure if NOT having a PF would cause reboots.

 

Also I'm going to run a CHKDSK on my main drive... Other than the PSU the HDD is the only component I haven't really checked.

 

Oh, I called the power company and the guy told me 106v is barely in tolerance and to call if it drops and lower.

[martin-w]

Also I'm going to run a CHKDSK on my main drive... Other than the PSU the HDD is the only component I haven't really checked.

CrystalDiscInfo will enable you to test and see the smart analysis.

 

In addition, Western Digital lifeguard Tools is free on the WD site.Works for any HD. Will run a thorough diagnostic.

[ryanbatc]

Well I found something interesting... it could just be coincidental but my little kid stood up and touched the case tonight and at that exact moment it rebooted.  I also heard a shock.  He's wearing fleece PJ;s so this makes sense - some sort of static electricity build up (we also have carpeting).  My wife also said last time she watched it reboot he was standing next to it and touched it.

 

I can't say every time it has rebooted he touched it but it could be a static issue because it's really dry down here and carpeted.

 

I thought modern cases were supposed to handle this sort of thing?  Or maybe it was just a coincidence...  Thoughts?

[JRBarrett]

Well I found something interesting... it could just be coincidental but my little kid stood up and touched the case tonight and at that exact moment it rebooted. I also heard a shock. He's wearing fleece PJ;s so this makes sense - some sort of static electricity build up (we also have carpeting). My wife also said last time she watched it reboot he was standing next to it and touched it.

 

I can't say every time it has rebooted he touched it but it could be a static issue because it's really dry down here and carpeted.

 

I thought modern cases were supposed to handle this sort of thing? Or maybe it was just a coincidence... Thoughts?

Yes, the ultra-low humidity of a centrally-heated home in winter can definitely produce static electric charges of pretty significant voltage, especially if one has just walked across a carpet while wearing rubber or leather soled shoes.

 

I've "zapped" my own PC and caused a lockup by getting a spark when touching the keyboard or mouse... If touching the main case causes a lockup or reboot, it could indicate that the ground connection within the power cord has a problem. I assume you have your UPS plugged into a standard 3-prong outlet.

 

You might want to pick up an electrician's outlet polarity tester at your local hardware or home improvement store. These are not very expensive, and are a good way to test that your AC outlets are wired correctly. The tester has three colored LEDs, and depending on the pattern of lights when the tester is plugged into an outlet, it will show if the "hot" and neutral wires are connected to the correct slots in the outlet, and whether the third (ground) wire is correct, or open. A missing outlet ground could definitely make your system more prone to static problems.

[ryanbatc]

Ok I think I'll do that. One thing is for sure - I never had this problem prior to changing rooms. I actually hope the outlet is not grounded.. Would probably explain the issue.

 

Short if adding humidity to the room I don't know what to do.

[Guest]

I thought modern cases were supposed to handle this sort of thing?

 

Agree with Jim's suggestions.  Motherboards are usually grounded to the case (riser pins the MB attaches to).  You definitely WANT a ground ... how old is the home?  

 

There are also rodents that can chew thru wiring (in the walls) and cause fires and overall bad electrical situations.  Definitely worth investigating if not for your PC, just for overall home safety.

[ryanbatc]

Alright so I tested my outlets with my multimeter.  Seems normal... check my work?

 

Small to Large 112v (theory should be 120v)

Small to Ground 112v

Large to Ground 0v

 

This leaves me with my PSU that was buzzing fairly loudly last night and still need to chkdsk my hdd.

[Guest RWFeldman]

Two DMM's. Monitor input to PSU and the output of the PSU +/- 12v and the 5v rail. 112v is with the 15% tolerance. Ive seen 108v with no problems.

[ryanbatc]

Crystal Disc info shows "Good" health

WD Lifeguard tools gives pass test result

 

I can't figure how to check 5v on my psu but the 12v rail shows 12.319v in BIOS.  What do you mean by "Two DMM's?"

 

Also does anyone think it's possible that the boost on my UPS damaged the PSU by changing voltage from 108 to 124v?  That's a pretty bug jump.  The UPS goes into boost usually when the line voltage drops below 110.

[JRBarrett]

Crystal Disc info shows "Good" health

WD Lifeguard tools gives pass test result

 

I can't figure how to check 5v on my psu but the 12v rail shows 12.319v in BIOS.  What do you mean by "Two DMM's?"

 

Also does anyone think it's possible that the boost on my UPS damaged the PSU by changing voltage from 108 to 124v?  That's a pretty bug jump.  The UPS goes into boost usually when the line voltage drops below 110.

 

 

Going from 108 to 124 by itself shouldn't cause any problems - UNLESS the UPS output voltage momentarily spikes up to a much higher level when the boost mode kicks in. The front panel voltage meter on your UPS would never show that, you'd need an oscilloscope to see a spike.

 

The other question, that others have raised, is whether your UPS generates a relatively pure sine wave when its running, or more of a square wave - the latter is not preferred. Again, you'd need to use a scope to know for sure.

 

All other things being equal, an input voltage a little on the high side is better for your PSU than a voltage that is low. Even though a given PSU may be rated for an input as low as 106-108, it has puts a great deal more strain on the PSU's internal components to generate the required DC voltages and currents your PC requires when the AC supply is that low.

 

Based on your findings with your multimeter, it appears that your outlet is wired correctly. Another question regards what other items in your house are on the same circuit breaker as the outlet that powers your PC. I had a problem with the power in my computer room because the outlet I was using was on the same circuit as the washer and (gas) drier downstairs. I was troubled by spontaneous reboots just like you have. It turned out that every time the motor in the washing machine kicked on, (particularly if the drier drum motor was also running), it was inducing a pretty significant surge, that may well have lead to the early death of the PSU I was using at the time.

 

I eventually changed the feed to the outlets in my computer room, to a dedicated circuit breaker on the opposite leg of the split 240/120 service from the leg used by the appliances, and had no further problems.

 

The "static electricty gremlin" is also probably still a factor too. Some things you can do to lessen that (until warmer, more humid weather returns) is to buy a conductive floor mat to put under the chair you sit in while operating your PC. (available at Staples or Office Max etc.) The kind of chair matters too. Office-style chairs with leather or plastic coverings can be wicked static generators in winter - especially when you sit down, or stand up - and especially if your clothing is made of an artifical fabric like nylon or polyester, or is woolen. My own computer chair is an swivel office-style seat, but is fabric covered.

 

The fact your PSU "buzzes" under load is a bit worrisome. It could be the cooling fan, but ordinarily a switching power supply will not produce a buzz, even under load, unless an internal component is stressed or defective, or the input AC waveform has a lot of harmonics (which is another problem that arises when a power utility system voltage drops too low under heavy load).

[RickB1293]

Hey Ryan-

I was up in Hibbing for a Hockey Tournament over the New Years and it reached -34F!! Hasn't been this cold in years.

 

About your problem- 106VAC is right on the edge of acceptable. You should have a "clean" line voltage of 220/230/240VAC at your service panel. The system voltage can vary from 5% above to 10% below your RMS voltage. Where you live determines whether your home has 220, 230 or 240 VAC service. In town, you should have 240VAC which when center tapped gives you two 120VAC circuits. Ten percent less would be 108VAC. The 10% is an industry standard that electrical manufacturers must certify that their equipment will operate with. Rural areas can have service voltages as low as 220VAC which gives you two 110VAC rails, minus 10% gives you 99VAC. The other residential service is 230VAC, with two 115VAC rails when center tapped. 230VAC services are rare but electrical manufacturers will design to that voltage because their stuff will meet the widest standards.

 

I've installed a lot of industrial equipment in Duluth and you have areas in town with any of the three voltages, based on the age of the grid (power lines and transformers) supplying your part of town. In any event 106 VAC is unusually. What kind of meter did you measure it with? Some of the bargain meters impose an artificial load on the circuit being tested and return an inaccurate reading. Also you should test the voltage at several locations in the house to see if your inside wiring is properly installed. A loose wire to an outlet will arc and form resistance between the wire and the plug. This can result in a voltage drop across the outlet tines. If 106VAC is consistent across several outlets then the best place to start is in your service panel where the circuit breakers are located.

 

If you're comfortable working around electricity you can take the cover off your service panel and test the voltage across the two big terminals that have a black wire on them. You should read 220, 230 or 240VAC across the two big black wires. Once you've done that test the voltage between each of the black wires and the third large wire which should either be white or have the end wrapped in white tape. The white wire is your nuetral wire which electrically is earth ground. All of your white circuir wires and bare ground wires should be attached to a bus bar connected to the large white service terminal. Voltage readings from each black to the neutral should be equal and 1/2 the value between the two black wires. If your service panel has aluminum wires the fastening lug should be torqued which is something that a licensed electrician should do. If your house was built in the late sixties to early seventies the branch circuit wiring (to the outlets) may also be aluminum. If it is, then check the connections to all of your outlets and switches. Aluminum was cheap but it tended to crimp and loosen over time. Most commercial and industrial locations in your area have been rewired with copper but it's something to think about.

 

Don't take the word of MPL about your readings. Consult an electrician or the State Electrical Inspector and describe your problem to them. Your computer is probably the weak link, especially with the UPS. Unless the UPS is also a power conditioner it will act as you've described, especially if it's rated for 120VAC in which case 106VAC is detected as a "brown out" and the crossover circuitry will try to switch in and out unpredictably.

 

Also, make sure your polarity is correct. If it's backwards your radio will listen and the lights will cast shadows. 

 

If you have any questons PM me and we can arrange to talk.

 

Rick

[ryanbatc]

I described my issue to Seasonic - the guy recommended an RMA.  Honestly that's kind of annoying to me.  The thing isn't even three years old.  And they're just throwing in the towel.  I asked to speak with one of their engineers or someone who had first hand knowledge of it.  The rep just said "you need to send it in."  *sigh*

 

I tested the line voltage with my multimeter, all my outlets read about the same.  However the day it dropped to 106 I saw it with my UPS monitor.  The monitor value and the value on my multimeter agree, at least today.

 

I'm not comfortable with electricity - other than what I learned so far with this issue all I know is that electricity can kill you.  I've opened the door on my breaker boxes (we've got one for the baseboard heaters downstairs and one for the rest of the house I think), and that's about as far as I've gotten.

 

What I do know is the previous owner of the house was a electrician with Duluth Electrical Contractors...  I think he might have even owned the company.  So you'd think he did everything correctly.  I sort of wish the MPL guy would have given me some ideas too.

 

So far I've not seen any reboots since I temporarily moved my PC cable off the UPS and the surge protector.  I know it's not a great idea to run right into the outlet but that's what I did last night and no issues (knock on wood).  I suppose it's possible that both my UPS and surge protector are broken.  For now I switched out to another surge protector and am running the PC off that.

 

For UPS I'm looking at a pure sine wave one, but I wonder if it's good enough:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=981758&Q=&is=REG&A=details

[Guest RWFeldman]

So, what correlation does your seemingly voltage problem have with your Malware issue?

[ryanbatc]

None that I know of.  Because I didn't find the stuff until yesterday, but I've been reboot free for about 3 days.

 

Other than the RMA I'll probably anyway for my PSU (because of the buzz), I put my PC directly into the outlet for a day, then I swapped out surge protectors and nothing has happened since.  However the temperatures haven't been -30F like last week.  They're still really cold (-15 at night, 0 in the day).  I sort of wish the temps would drop again.  I think clean power was my problem.  I'm not plugging into my UPS again - I'll consider a UPS with pure sine wave when I do.

 

EDIT: NOOOO!  Rebooted when my wife touched her wool sock to the outside of the case (static discharge).