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KingGhidorah

Continuing pushback problems, especially NGX

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Returning to a subject I think I've brought up before, I'm having problems with the NGX pushback.  Supposedly the Mechanic will take care of the Chocks automatically.  With the FMC ground connection window up, viewing it, I see that he releases the chocks, but then after a second or two they come back on.  Then the mechanic announces that there is a problem with the pushback.  I have to then manually remove the chocks (and then of course the parking brakes) and again request he initiate pushback.  Then he begins pushing back.  I say stop pushback.  His response "one minute" or "hang on".  Then he'll eventually say "Initiating pushback" (I want him to stop the pushback).  Then he'll finally stop the pushback. Furthermore, if I make the least annuciation error in "Mechanic you are free to disconnect", he will automatically interpret that as a request to pushback again, and begin to do it, leading me to have to tell him to Stop pushback again.  If he didn't understand me, I would much rather have him ask for confirmation.  Somebody please take a look at all this.  I really don't think I'm doing anything wrong here,  it just isn't functioning very smoothly or intuitively at all. 

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Try: "ground you may disconnect"

 

Hope this helps.


Gary, CIMEL, retired FAA Controller & all around good guy!
Faa.gif

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Re the chocks, I have found that they seem to be linked to the APU on/off. If I shut down the APU the chocks "reappear"!

 

I always have APU running during PB, even if both engines are running after a gate start.
 
The speech recognition is interpreting what it thinks you have said. I re run the recognition software periodically. My recording level has a mind of its own, it will re set the volume after a while! :blush:

"ground you may disconnect" or "Mechanic you may leave", some times works better.

 

Regards

David


 

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My experience is if the chocks are in place when you ask for the push they are going to screw things up.  If you remove them yourself from the FMS Menu screen, even then, it works rather screwy.   I think the last time I did this, as a test, I ask for the push, the mechanic came back and said "setting chocks" (what???!!!) and then he set them, removed them, and then begin the push.  He pushed straight until I asked him to Stop push...his response was " We're ready to push anytime you want...please wait..." (?????) and then he eventually stopped the push, after an unnaceptable wait (I thought he was going to ram me into another plane). 

 

I haven't looked as closely or critically at how it is on other planes than NGX.  Obviously there are no chocks, so I think the push begins rather normally, but if I recall, he still fools around and gives strange responses when trying to stop.

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Hi, I don't use MCE, but is it possible to just pushback from the FMC and skip this altogether, or is MCE pushback a required action?

 

rob


Rob Marton

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Returning to a subject I think I've brought up before, I'm having problems with the NGX pushback.  Supposedly the Mechanic will take care of the Chocks automatically.  With the FMC ground connection window up, viewing it, I see that he releases the chocks, but then after a second or two they come back on.  Then the mechanic announces that there is a problem with the pushback.  I have to then manually remove the chocks (and then of course the parking brakes) and again request he initiate pushback.  Then he begins pushing back.  I say stop pushback.  His response "one minute" or "hang on".  Then he'll eventually say "Initiating pushback" (I want him to stop the pushback).  Then he'll finally stop the pushback. Furthermore, if I make the least annuciation error in "Mechanic you are free to disconnect", he will automatically interpret that as a request to pushback again, and begin to do it, leading me to have to tell him to Stop pushback again.  If he didn't understand me, I would much rather have him ask for confirmation.  Somebody please take a look at all this.  I really don't think I'm doing anything wrong here,  it just isn't functioning very smoothly or intuitively at all. 

 

I suggest you create your own voice commands to alias existing ones.

 

It's easy for speech engine to confuse "start pushback" with "stop pushback".

 

Try something radical like "listen, I want you to stop pushback now", "mechanic I said stop the damn pushback" or anything you fancy. :P

 

You already know how to use Voxscript as a translator, so won't elaborate on that. Same for the command to release him. Use your own natural sentences. Built-in ones only recognize these

 

Ground you may leave ...

Ground you may disconnect ...

Meachanic you may leave ...

Mechanic you may disconnect ...

Ground engineer you may leave ...

Ground engineer you may disconnect ...

 

... means you can speak something else here like "thanks", "Now" or whatever

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I can try all that Gerald, and will, but I still urge you to take a look at the some of the logic on the NGX, regarding the off/on behavior of the chocks and also some of his very strange responses, where he clearly understands what was commanded (i.e Stop) and does it, but the response is wrong (we're ready to start).   I still think what I'm experiencing might run a little bit deeper than simply being misunderstood.

 

 

 

Hi, I don't use MCE, but is it possible to just pushback from the FMC and skip this altogether, or is MCE pushback a required action?

 

rob

 

No, you can still use the FMC Menu Pushback, or you can just use shift-P.  The problems I'm experiencing are not a deal-breaker, they just cause a little unnecessary frustration.

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I can try all that Gerald, and will, but I still urge you to take a look at the some of the logic on the NGX, regarding the off/on behavior of the chocks and also some of his very strange responses, where he clearly understands what was commanded (i.e Stop) and does it, but the response is wrong (we're ready to start).   I still think what I'm experiencing might run a little bit deeper than simply being misunderstood.

 

 

 

 

No, you can still use the FMC Menu Pushback, or you can just use shift-P.  The problems I'm experiencing are not a deal-breaker, they just cause a little unnecessary frustration.

 

OK, Ben will have a look

 

An update is normally due out this week. Hopefully required changes will be implemented by then.

 

And before you ask...

 

It will add support for CS 707

Will be fully P3D V2 ready

Improves the PTT functionality with ATC feature

Will display remaining FS Virtual memory alongside the spoken commands.

Addresses some other issues raised either via e-mail or on this forum.

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I have some more detailed information for you about exactly what happens, word for word.  I have written in Bold, those responses which I think are innapropriate or don't make much sense.  This is with the Newest version 2.5.92.

 

Try Number 1:  NGX is parked at gate with Chocks Set on the utility screen.

 

Me:  "Cockpit to Ground"

William: "Yeah Captain, you're welcome to release the brakes"  (I would have expected "Hello" or something on first contact)

Me: "Mechanic Begin Pushback"

William: "We're ready to begin pushback any time you want. (I already said I wanted it)  The Push Truck is in place and we're ready ..(10 second pause) Beginning Push...Can I ask you not to apply Brake Pressure?  (chocks still in)"

 

Try Number 2:  Chocks Removed by me manually, but parking brake still on.

 

Me: "Cockpit to Ground"

William: "How can I be of any help skipper" (good and expected response)

Me: "Mechanic begin pushback"

William "Just waiting for order to begin pushing and we're fully ready down here...Can I ask you not to apply brake pressure"

Me: (Removes parking brakes, but push never begins.  Perhaps I'm supposed to say 'brakes are off')

 

 

Try Number 3:  Chocks Removed manually by me, Parking brake off.

 

Me:  "Mechanic begin pushback"

William: Standing by for startup and push...ready for push any time you are...pushing straight. (push begins)

Me:  "Mechanic Stop push" (He keeps pushing for a little while, making me nervious)

Willaim: "Advise when ready for startup or push...Stopping Pushback (stops push)

Me: "Ground you are clear to disconnect"

Wiliam: Affirm, will disconnect shorty, been a pleasure to deal with you Captain (good response)

_______________________________________________________________________

 

So he's not really capable of dealing with the Chocks, and he's making some bizzare responses to commands.  It's ok if I have to remove the Chocks manually, and have the parking brakes already off at the time of pushback, but if he's supposed to be able to deal with the chocks, then it's not quite working right.  More important than that though, I think, are the extra responses, because they burst the immersion bubble.  So, the pushback function of MCE is definitely usable, it's just a little funky right now.

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